position in the marketing of life insurance policies? This was the theme of a recent roundtable discussion organized by American Banker. Three prominent industry spokesmen met at the newspaper's New York headquarters for lunch and spirited discussion about some of the banks that sell insurance. The participants were: Paul Feeney, senior vice president for insurance at National Westminster Bancorp, Jersey City. Larry Mayewski, senior vice president, life/health department at A.M. Best, Oldwick, N.J., an insurance rating service. Kenneth Kehrer, principal of Kenneth Kehrer Associates, Princeton, N.J., a research and consulting firm. Investment products editor John Kimelman was moderator. Excerpts follow: AMERICAN BANKER: What do you think is driving the current wave of interest in banks getting into sales of life insurance? KEHRER: The first is clearly a concept of trying to become a broader provider of services for their customers. AB: What do you think the potential is in the industry for sales of various life products? KEHRER: My guesstimate right now is that banks maybe do as much as $500 million in life insurance premiums. And that potential is probably $20 billion a year. AB: Some banks have gotten into this business by buying traditional insurance agencies as opposed to integrating insurance sales in the bank environment. What do you think of this approach? FEENEY: If all banks try to do is recreate an insurance agency force, then they're just going to find themselves making the same mistakes insurance agencies have made. But there's a great potential for them to say what is the customer proposition that we want to create, and work from the customer backwards. Banks can design a new distribution type force and they can do that now. They have a massive competitive advantage economically over insurance companies with captive agencies. MAYEWSKI: I think that the general problem with the general agency systems is productivity. You're just not getting the level of productivity that is supportive or reflects the cost structure. It's an expensive structure - recruitment, retention. But I do think there is a potential improvement in productivity through a bank distribution. KEHRER: Also, one of the things I think banks have found is that they're prisoners of the product mentality. Banks themselves, either given the existing structures or the way they've entered these markets, have tended to be compartmentalized, so that in some places insurance is segregated from investments, segregated from lending and so on. I think the real challenge for banks is to overcome those preexisting structures. AB: Paul, how are you going about marketing insurance at Natwest branches in New Jersey? FEENEY: Our strategy is very simple. Everywhere someone touches Natwest, we want to be able to provide them with a full service, be that insurance, investments, or banking. It will be provided somewhat differently if someone goes to an ATM than if someone comes to our financial advisers. We have hired and we are training what you might term financial advisers - people who will be able to sit down with a customer and analyze their full financial needs. They must be able to not only analyze those needs, but present those back to the customer and provide a product solution package, whatever that customer requires. That's one thing. MAYEWSKI: Right now, life insurance is the missing piece of the puzzle. Clearly with estate planning, transfer of wealth issues. and just the demographic changes that are taking place, insurance can play a key role in a financial plan. AB: Why is the focus right now for banks on life insurance as opposed to other types of insurance, like property and casualty and auto? FEENEY: There are some very clear reasons why banks will look away from auto and homeowners. From the customer's point of view as well, it's a very, very oversupplied market at all levels. At the same time, there are opportunities for the banks. If a bank can pull together a number of companies to provide say a cross-nation or cross- state distribution network for auto or homeowners, that would be a way they could make significant inroads. It's a matter of priorities - a question of which type of insurance do we get into first? We will do the first stage first, which is life insurance. MAYESKI: One way to look at this is that property and casualty insurance is generally bought. But life insurance is generally sold, not bought. I think banks have a great trust with their consumer-base and I think they can parlay and leverage that trust. That's not to say the property and life business won't be brought into the bank; it may be, as Paul said, at a later point after we've moved toward life insurance. KEHRER: Banks that have gone into selling property and casualty insurance have largely been stymied by the marketplace. The typical property-casualty insurer doesn't want to sell any more property-casualty insurance than they're already selling. They're trying to get out of certain states. They are trying to increase the prices of insurance, not find low-cost solutions. And because of the economics of the property-casualty business, which is really a zero-sum game, every policy the bank sells is taking money out of an agent's wallet. But with life insurance, there's a sense that banks can expand the size of the pie, expand the market. AB: What about health insurance? Has the whole movement toward managed care just made this type of insurance very unclear from a bank's perspective? KEHRER: My sense is that the whole financial services industry is kind of waiting to see what happens in the health-care arena before taking new initiatives. FEENEY: I think that's an area that could be a significant growth area of banks. We'll be testing and going out with a long-term-care policy and a disability-income policy. MAYEWSKI: I agree the market right now is kind of in a wait-and-see mode, but echoing Paul's comments, the thought that disability coverage is a long-term care plays a critical role in a financial plan. Clearly the market is still in a shake-out mode, but I think there are very significant growth opportunities to provide disability and long-term care coverage ultimately through a banking distribution channel. AB: Right now there is very little special underwriting for banks. When do you expect that banks, working with underwriters, will start offering customers a product that's distinctly better, a product where there's more benefit per premium dollar than the kind of products traditional agents are now offering? MAYEWSKI: I guess it's going to be when the managements of banks totally embrace the concept of selling insurance products - when that bank management recognizes and fully supports throughout the organization the push to sell insurance. KEHRER: The insurance companies I work with say they find it very difficult to develop products with better consumer value to go to a distribution system that competes with their agents. That just doesn't wash. AB: There are lots of loopholes that allow banks to enter the insurance marketplace now. Given that fact, do you think that the business