Kenneth I. Chenault, president and chief operating officer of American Express Co., said in court testimony Friday that his company wants to offer an offline debit product "that would be priced lower than Visa and MasterCard" but cannot do so because of the associations' rules.

Mr. Chenault said Amex is cut off from the offline debit business because U.S. banks are not willing to risk flouting MasterCard and Visa rules that prohibit working with nonbank brands. The banks fear they could lose access to the associations' ATM networks, Cirrus and Plus, he said.

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