Make Your Bank the Hub of the SMB Back Office

It’s a new business as usual. The pandemic accelerated the need to do business digitally. And, after years of increasing fragmentation of partners and services, there is a movement toward consolidation. For your SMB customers that means simplifying with all-in-one solutions integrating bank accounts and other back office services like invoicing, bill payment, and expense management. Learn how leading banks are partnering with fintech to solve customer pain points and become the hub of the SMB back office.

Transcription:

00:00:09:03 - 00:00:29:15
David Heun

Hello. I'm David Heun, associate editor for the bank technology team at American Baker. And I'm welcoming you today's session at the Digital Banking Conference. We've got a very interesting topic today, one that a lot of banks have been moving towards, thinking about wanting to do and getting ready to do so. We should be able to answer all those questions.

00:00:29:15 - 00:00:54:12
David Heun

And speaking of which, you can ask your questions during the session at the link that you see available to you to ask questions. With us today is Randy Von Feldt. He's the vice president of strategic partnerships at San Jose, California based Bill.com. And Megan Kakani, head of Emerging Products, Product Innovation for Enterprise Commercial Payments, at KeyBank which has its headquarters in Cleveland, Ohio.

00:00:54:27 - 00:01:19:12
David Heun

But Megan is coming to us from Brazil today, so she can maybe touch on a little bit as well. You know, it's it's one of those topics that everybody sharing about all the fintechs they're engaged in. A lot of companies are engaged in helping small businesses get through their day to day needs. On the financial side. And the banks need to be part of that action if they don't already.

00:01:19:12 - 00:01:35:27
David Heun

And I think our two panelists today will really be able to guide you properly as to what to think about, what to do, what not to do, what to watch for all those great things. So in order to get started, though, I believe that we really need to kind of zero in on what are we talking about as a small business.

00:01:36:17 - 00:01:56:13
David Heun

To me, it's the guy who fixes my shoes or gets me a pizza. You know, pretty small businesses, but I think for the for the banks and for Bill.com, that there's a little different description of what that really is. So I want to start by asking you how you view a small business, especially from the benefit of up services like a Bill.com as a partner for a bank.

00:01:56:24 - 00:02:06:11
David Heun

You know, what are these small businesses looking for about what size are they and what kind of back office functions are they most in need of whether they know it or not? And I'll start with you on this one, Randy.

00:02:07:04 - 00:02:43:17
Randy Von Feldt

Yeah, thank you, David. And thanks for having me today. Excited to be part of the conference. And I am coming to you from the San Jose offices of Bill.com. Very excited. I just want everybody to know that we have lights in the office and so we're all clean and everything's all good. So yeah. So, you know, we see small businesses as a relatively broad range of companies and, you know, ranging from, you know, sole proprietorships and people who are just getting started in business all the way up to, you know, companies in the $20 to $30 million in annual revenue and a few of it bigger.

00:02:44:15 - 00:03:16:00
Randy Von Feldt

We like to focus on this, this, this component of the of the continuum simply because it's somewhat of an underserved community in terms of businesses. You know a lot of banks and other services provide consumer related products to smaller businesses like that. And then they also provide Treasury management level more sophisticated, more complicated. And in an advanced feature function, applications for the bigger companies.

00:03:16:09 - 00:03:50:07
Randy Von Feldt

But in the middle, you know, our our founder, René, I was he felt, hey, there's nobody serving these businesses. So that's where we started to focus. Obviously, we focus heavily on paying the bill and invoicing. So money out and money in. We also believe that accounting software is a key component of any small businesses back office. So we spend a lot of time and effort to be able to synchronize our are the work that gets done and Bill.com with a number of accounting packages.

00:03:51:02 - 00:04:20:27
Randy Von Feldt

If you look at some of the recent things that Bill.com has gotten into, things like spend management, expense management and more advanced invoicing, you can see that our strategy is really to help small businesses execute all of their back office functions in one place and where that comes into play with our partnerships with our banks is that we know based on research and based on our talking with these customers that customers trust their banks.

00:04:20:28 - 00:04:50:07
Randy Von Feldt

Right. And this is where they start. This is where they have their operating accounts, and then they want their banks to be technologically forward, offering them all these products they want to go in one place. Right. So our strategy in working with our partners is if we can bring all these features and functions in one place, offer it through the bank, we give those small businesses what they want on both fronts and really create a positive experience, positive relationship between the bank and those customers.

00:04:50:14 - 00:04:54:08
Randy Von Feldt

And so that's our that's our general focus of what we're working on.

00:04:54:26 - 00:05:12:14
David Heun

Very good. Thank you, Randy. How about you Megan? I didn't know it's a small business description. Or definition would change geographically for KeyBank. But why don't you give us an overview of what you're thinking in terms of that type of a question and where you see these partnerships?

00:05:13:05 - 00:05:36:28
Megan Kakani

Sure. No, it's similar to what Randy was describing in terms of dollar size. We think of it as all the way from zero to 25, 35 million in terms of how we define very technically small business. But I think in terms of what that means, there's a couple attributes for small business which are, you know, everything from sole prop to [inaudible], but I think we're really defined as small businesses.

00:05:36:28 - 00:06:05:15
Megan Kakani

They're typically not someone who's got a dedicated individual doing the back office. You know, it's a small business is a group of people in an individual or group and they're wearing multiple hats. And so this is typically not the main purpose for their job. They want to get back to running their business, running their small business. And so our goal is to be able to bring them as much ease to running their back office as we can.

00:06:05:15 - 00:06:25:10
Megan Kakani

And it's why we we look for partners at Bill.com and then I think why we work with Bill.com and what the bank fintech partnership brings is, you know, I think part of it we pride ourselves with the bank is the relationship that we have with our customers and that broader relationship understanding not just bringing up a technology solution, but but understanding the broader need to be good advice as well.

00:06:25:10 - 00:06:42:29
Megan Kakani

And so being able to take the technology that Bill.com as a partner and then brought that in with the relationship and advice that we can bring in a single touch point to a small business to make their back office is easy to run so they can get back to doing their day to day job is sort of our objective.

00:06:43:20 - 00:07:07:27
David Heun

Very good. You know, when you talk about technology, people like to talk about trends, you know, and the thinking about that. And I think to myself here, what would a trend be in a small bank trying to make there become the hub for a small business back office operation. There can be only certain things that you're paying bills or you're you know, you're reconciling them, you're moving money in and out.

00:07:07:27 - 00:07:26:24
David Heun

You're doing some other functions for the small business that they don't have the personnel to handle it. But what would be a trend like a current trend? What do you think is driving it and maybe kind of address that question from the standpoint of, you know, the customer pain points and what they're telling you they want.

00:07:30:08 - 00:07:56:20
Megan Kakani

There's a couple trends that we're seeing [inaudible] maybe will have to add to that. We're seeing one is the heavy influence of consumer. So all of the trends that you see in consumer with that, the different payment types, the speed of payment, the ease of payment, and the idea of being able to do those activities from anywhere on your mobile device is something that we see having a really strong influence on business in general and in particular, small business.

00:07:56:20 - 00:08:18:25
Megan Kakani

Both businesses because of, let's call it, consumer and so the trends that start consumer make their way into small business. And I think what that means is making sure that we are friendly to that that [inaudible] doing it. You're operating your small business doesn't just happen from a PC at a desk in a very fixed place. It happens all over the place.

00:08:19:15 - 00:08:45:19
Megan Kakani

And so making sure that know more and more our solutions can go and be access to any place for small businesses so they can use it where they need to not where we sort of dictate. Another big one that we see is automation in particular, workflows in general. So at least from the bank perspective, Treasury used to be all about executing the payment, and the payment is only a part of the process and it's only a small part of the [inaudible].

00:08:46:12 - 00:09:23:19
Megan Kakani

And I think more and more the trend has been to help solve not just the execution, but the broader pain of the process, which is handling all the information of the paperwork, all of the flow of approval. That's part of money and and money out and all of that visibility along the way of bringing that all into one place is increasing you know, I think a trend that's a couple of years old now is increasingly and I'd say I think Randy said, describe small business, that it, you know, an area that has been somewhat neglected I think we saw that automation trends start really strong a couple of years ago in the larger space, but it

00:09:23:19 - 00:09:42:02
Megan Kakani

was never right sized to the small business area. And so they were stuff that a lot of people or a lot of excel it it's now starting to see that trend move will be demanded by the small businesses as well. And then Randy, you touched on earlier, too, but the idea of being able to see whatever software they're using so people don't want to have to be in multiple places anymore.

00:09:42:26 - 00:10:02:06
Megan Kakani

They want it all together in one touchpoint and so on, thinking with the ERP system. It's why we we bring the build back up so that you can think otherwise. There's someone who's touching their ERP, touch it up in tech solution, touching their bank, thinking all that information on the systems together so that they connect in one place increasingly is what we see from our customers as well.

00:10:02:06 - 00:10:07:03
Megan Kakani

They don't want to have to go to three or four different places to pull all the information together.

00:10:07:24 - 00:10:37:01
David Heun

Okay. Yeah, it makes sense to me. You know, from your standpoint, Randy, as far as trends go, I would imagine Bill.com has to be the company that would tell people with the trends how, you know, you're kind of educating them as to what they should be doing and thinking about, you know? So from that standpoint, based on what Megan just said and what, what would you have to add in that in terms of Bill.com being the one that would probably be the the company saying here, look, look what you should be doing Yeah.

00:10:37:01 - 00:11:05:08
Randy Von Feldt

So I in general themes, I absolutely agree with Megan. And I would say there's this fundamental concept of consumer capabilities, driving, driving requirements in the small business space. But a couple of specific areas just to add on. One is call it choice and flexibility around like payment types. Right. So if you think about a consumer, you know, I can I can pay with a credit card.

00:11:05:09 - 00:11:22:18
Randy Von Feldt

I can send somebody a Venmo, I can send a PayPal, I can do as Zelle. I can do there's all these different ways I can pay. That's what I want for my business as well. I want to be able to if I want to use my credit card to access work capital, even in the short term, I want to be able to do that.

00:11:22:26 - 00:11:51:01
Randy Von Feldt

If my vendor doesn't accept credit cards, I need to be able to get them an ACH potentially por a check. And so well, what we see as a major trend is the the requirement request I guess for flexibility and choice. And from our perspective, it's on both sides of any payment. So you have two parties involved in any payment and both those parties want the same level of choice.

00:11:51:09 - 00:12:19:12
Randy Von Feldt

And that's an area of focus. We've been spending a lot of time about how do we make the process optimal for both sides of a payment transaction. So that's one theory. The other one that I really like that Megan hit on is the consolidation concept is we all know how frustrating it is to try to learn one or two passwords Granted, I'm a little old school and so I didn't grow up learning passwords.

00:12:19:12 - 00:12:38:27
Randy Von Feldt

I also by the way, I just want to know one of the payment options that's still out there that I use quite frequently is cash. Very few people use that anymore, but I just it is still there. And I think it's is a feasible but that's just a personal thing. For me. But you know, you want to be able to come one place and do everything that needs to get done.

00:12:39:00 - 00:13:07:19
Randy Von Feldt

Right. And I think that is one thing that they're expecting and it's not necessarily anymore a nice to have for these small businesses because they get it in all their parts of their lives. And so that's where, again, we partnering with banks is so important to us because we can do a lot of simplifying processes, automating workflows and software and then we access the core money movement functions from our bank partners.

00:13:08:09 - 00:13:16:04
Randy Von Feldt

We have all of those things available to them to the end customer all those different payment types based on our relationships with our partners.

00:13:17:12 - 00:13:36:19
David Heun

Okay. You know, kind of an interesting thing that I would imagine there are a lot of banks may not think about or maybe not a bank so much, but they're a small business owner. When the bank comes to them and says, you know, we'd like to help you with these different services that you're having a hard time handling and we're set up to do it well.

00:13:36:22 - 00:13:58:20
David Heun

What's the process for the best product designed for these people? I would imagine it has to be collaboration between all three parties becoming a bank and a small business. But how do you deal with people who are so used to doing something one way and then the technology kind of flips it around on them or makes it way different from what they were thinking or expecting?

00:13:58:20 - 00:14:13:15
David Heun

Is it just kind of a learning curve to get used to it or you know, maybe what I'm asking is how long does it take to get the product design to what the bank and the business owner really comfortable with? And I think we can start with Megan on this one too.

00:14:13:15 - 00:14:37:19
Megan Kakani

Yeah, I'll add to that. I think there's two parts to the question in terms of the product design itself, I'd say it's a very iterative process of responding to sort of what we see working for the consumer and what we'll see not. But being a small business business banking solution, it is a broad based solution. So it's not a highly tailored to individual business solution.

00:14:37:19 - 00:15:06:18
Megan Kakani

It's more about collective feedback from the market. I take that the bigger influence on that. The product itself, though, is that it's not a static product. I think the the pace at which payments broadly continues to change your brand. You just mentioned spread it off a couple of new payment types. Like we've never seen the pace of new payment types and sort of core innovations within payment that that are going on right now.

00:15:07:05 - 00:15:32:11
Megan Kakani

And so I think the small business expectation is that they don't want to necessarily worry about all those trends. They don't want to have to integrate each of those trends into their ecosystem individually. They just want to collectively consume them. And it is up to us and our partners. I felt that [inaudible] to continually be evolving the product to account for and sort of incorporate in the new trends to keep it both current.

00:15:32:20 - 00:15:57:15
Megan Kakani

It's why and I think for bank, we are able to do a lot, but we're able to see some of our fintech partners do even more and more quickly. And it's part of why the partnership together works so well, is that we're able to bring what we bring and what we do well to the table. So we're also able to sort of add to that the speed of innovation that our partners can bring to it.

00:15:58:18 - 00:16:20:19
Megan Kakani

In terms of the product, that's really been the key thing is that it is never done. There's never not a a product backlog in terms of more things, more enhancements to tweak about it and and learning about where people are [inaudible] making sure that it's simple enough. I'd say intuitiveness is a really key term.

00:16:21:16 - 00:16:44:05
Megan Kakani

We're looking at small business product. And I think something that Bill.com does really well is always continuing to refine as we see the product with them, because the small business does not have to read a manual to figure it out. There's not someone is going to be deeply trained the product. They want someone to be able to sit down and use it and so that's been really key and that has new new features, new functionality come in.

00:16:44:05 - 00:16:54:15
Megan Kakani

They've just seamlessly come in for the small business. They don't have to think about, hey, this new things out there now I want to pull this. Yeah, listen, it's just there, I think. Yeah.

00:16:55:15 - 00:17:18:13
David Heun

I kind of agree with you there, Meg. And also, Randy, I might be thinking a little bit too much about a consumer facing type product delivery where there's all these new bells and whistles and hey, this is a neat new thing. But I would imagine you do get some feedback from your clients and kind of incorporate new things or of the way ideas is that is that kind of how it takes place with the collaboration part of it?

00:17:19:06 - 00:17:50:09
Randy Von Feldt

Yeah. So we spend a lot of time speaking with our customers about where their pain points are. And again, building on the partnership Megan noted earlier about the level of relationship that banks have with their customers, their very strong relationships. And so we leverage those and getting feedback to those customers as well. And one of the interesting things about talking to businesses along these lines is that it's a holistic conversation about how they run their business.

00:17:51:17 - 00:18:16:29
Randy Von Feldt

We, you know, sometimes we get into discussions about, you know, how do you track the accounting related to a certain bill payment and putting it into a certain department. You know, those are things, you know, small business owners. So want to think about that stuff. They don't really they just want to pay the bill right. And actually, if I might, I see a question that came in and I hope it's okay if I incorporate answering this question into my answer.

00:18:17:25 - 00:18:48:16
Randy Von Feldt

So thank you, Stephanie, for your question because one of the differences between just sending a payment and automating a process is all the things that have to happen in a small business behind the scenes in order to make that payment go so one of the things we have a slide I like to call it the iceberg slide primarily because it's, you know, of an iceberg where you know, when we look at a payment, right.

00:18:49:00 - 00:19:12:24
Randy Von Feldt

The little tip of the iceberg that you see is moving money from point A to point B, all the things underneath like receiving the invoice. Somebody's going to invoice somebody asking, is this an invoice that should be paid? Is it for the right amount? Did we receive these materials? What department is that for us within my budget? And how does this vendor want to be paid and how do I make sure it gets paid?

00:19:12:24 - 00:19:34:24
Randy Von Feldt

And what happens if they call me and say they didn't receive their payment so I'm just running through a bunch of those things. But those are the things, the level of kind of complexity that we try to simplify for a small business owner, almost to the point when we combine it with some of the offerings that a bank has, almost to a point where they don't have to think about anything below the waterline.

00:19:35:07 - 00:20:04:28
Randy Von Feldt

All they think about is, I got this bill, I ran it through a couple of processes online, either on my computer, on my mobile phone, and I hit send. And then the payments gone and I know what's there and I know they received it. End of discussion. Everything else underneath that happened and happened correctly based on the level of automation that we've been able to implement and that the bank has been able to implement, depending on the payment types and all those different aspects of the relationship.

00:20:06:17 - 00:20:31:27
David Heun

You know, Randy, you talked about, you know, having information attached to the bills and things like that. And it makes me think about the [inaudible] factor for cross-border payments. They just added a ton of data fields, and I think people would be amazed how many different things help both the business and the receiver and the sender as to what's going on with this payment, what's it for, where's it going and why is it this amount?

00:20:31:27 - 00:20:50:25
David Heun

What happens next? All these things can now be transferred digitally. So it's really, really kind of enhance the space. But, you know, when I think about small businesses in my background, done a lot on the payments side, too. And for me, it was just a matter of the bank had a merchant account set up there were setting up their payment terminals.

00:20:50:25 - 00:21:15:03
David Heun

You know, they're trying to stay on top of PCI compliance, but in order to truly get the back office hub operating in the bank and the bank provide this service what really has to take place for this to happen in terms of the learning curve, any kind of marketing awareness. So who needs to know other than the people who are going to be handling this stuff?

00:21:15:25 - 00:21:27:02
David Heun

Or is it really important for all the departments in the bank to understand this and and be part of the small business is aware of what's going on. How do you go about that part of that?

00:21:27:15 - 00:21:52:00
Randy Von Feldt

Well, again, we spend a lot of time trying to learn this through our banking partnerships. Actually, we do talk a lot with direct customers. But again, a banking relationship manager has such a deep relationship with the customer that what we try to do is work with them on figuring out the best discussion to have with them, with the small business about their overall process.

00:21:52:00 - 00:22:15:12
Randy Von Feldt

So there are times when we will start with like, I don't know, follow the bill process. Like, do you get it in the mail? Are they sent via email? Okay. If you get it in the mail, who opens it? Who looks at it? And so when we're able to do that, right, you're able to have a really in-depth conversation with a customer about where their pain points are and they may not even see them.

00:22:15:23 - 00:22:53:10
Randy Von Feldt

They may just say, This is what I do every day. It's not really that hard. I can figure it out right except that when you start asking questions about in the banking relationship, the bank relationship managers are extremely good at doing this and understanding how a business operates because they have so much experience with other businesses. So they can say, Well, what if you could say, 15 minutes here and one of you can save an hour there and the thing that the banking relationship managers also have is they have a strong knowledge of the full product that is available to that customer, either through us other partners or through the bank itself.

00:22:53:10 - 00:23:18:24
Randy Von Feldt

And so you don't to your to your question, you don't have to have 32 people on the phone with a small business to understand what their major pain points are. And one of the things that we do with our partners is we try to provide some assistance in how we talk to our customers about what they're doing on a day to day basis and how we gain understanding of the pain points specific to bill pay in invoicing.

00:23:19:12 - 00:23:45:29
Randy Von Feldt

But what that does is it sets a stage for having a conversation with the bank customer about the overall picture of their business. And so that's where we see it as an opportunity. Actually, it's you know, we are simplifying a very complex process, even for a really small business. Right. And we're talking about you know, their their money and their income and all those things and wrapped up.

00:23:45:29 - 00:24:13:06
Randy Von Feldt

And all these systems are complex tools. We work really hard to simplify that. And having somebody who can help a small business understand what they need to know about that complex process is really invaluable. To the overall relationship. And that's where, again, a lot of our bank relationships are extremely good, that they understand what small businesses go through as well as we do, and we can have those conversations.

00:24:14:26 - 00:24:23:16
David Heun

What are you seeing in that world Megan in terms of the learning curve and the marketing that has to take place? How is it playing out for KeyBank?

00:24:24:02 - 00:24:48:04
Megan Kakani

No, it's a great question. I see what we see in terms of the learning curve. As you know, it's not just a tool change, it's a process change. And that takes time and support too. And so it's a it's great to bring the tools to our customers, but we've also got to take a relationship and bring I think what we've seen is it's not just sort of enrolling in a great tool and everything magically runs better.

00:24:48:17 - 00:25:29:00
Megan Kakani

It's getting them to also embrace that because you've got this great tool now you can change your processes a little bit to make your life easier, but it's helping them through, particularly those first those first couple transactions are crucial to get them to understand sort of how they're changing and get the person who is doing the the work day to day and actually needs to make the change to understand the, the, you know, old habits die hard even with great tools in hand of and getting them to understand the things that they don't have to do anymore still takes a little a little bit of nudging and sort of it's a, you know, encouragement those those

00:25:29:00 - 00:25:44:08
Megan Kakani

first couple bites. And once they get it then then they get it and they get off and running at once what's there once they get a taste for it then they're good to go and they will they will grow from there but takes a little nudging so it's not just handed over and poof.

00:25:44:27 - 00:26:10:25
David Heun

Yeah, right. You know in terms of the partnership between Bill. com and KeyBank, that's probably kind of an interesting thing to tap out a little bit here as we get near the end of our session here. But in terms of like a key takeaway or advice you would share with the people in our audience. The other thing is I'm thinking you know a little bit about what really goes on behind the scenes.

00:26:10:25 - 00:26:29:16
David Heun

I mean, is that is it somebody saying, imagine Randy's on the phone again? You know, you got we got to hammer this thing out, you know, whatever it might be. I know there's a lot of work to be done, but what what what's the key takeaway on this journey that people should think about? When they leave this session today start with Megan.

00:26:30:09 - 00:26:51:12
Megan Kakani

You know, for us, it's that it's not just a technology solution. It's a finding, a someone out there in the workplace is going to be a strong relationship with us all the way. Because I'll say Randy and I are in regular communication that the folks that we have on our team are in regular dialogue. It's not just that they send us a piece of technology and walk away.

00:26:51:12 - 00:27:21:24
Megan Kakani

It's that they are an ongoing partner and support tool for us in terms of our continuing to craft our value prop, how we're continuing to sort of enhance the features and functionality is how we're continuing to engage with our sales teams, what's working in their direct sales, what's working in ours, how we've used the two together. So it's not just about the technology, but about the people on the other side of it.

00:27:22:16 - 00:27:33:17
David Heun

Okay, very good. Randy, I think we've got a couple of minutes left if you want to chime in on that. And I will say that, yes, Megan and Randy were doing business as we were waiting to get on. So you can say.

00:27:34:04 - 00:27:59:08
Randy Von Feldt

Oh, we take advantage of all interactions. So, you know, I think I believe the key takeaway and I'll speak from the fintech’s perspective is that a couple of key factors are trust. The process is one of them, and I know that's a bit of a cliche, but you know, a bank is a bank right? And they're highly regulated and there's a lot of compliance.

00:27:59:28 - 00:28:35:11
Randy Von Feldt

We actually are. We're a money services business as well. We're highly regulated and we have a lot of compliance and working together on that process and trusting each other to work through that is highly critical because the thing is we're dealing with a small businesses money. When you're dealing with a small business, what is really important to them is really important to the bank relationship as it it's you have to to to to really check all those boxes and take all those things seriously as part of the relationship, I think especially to the fintechs out there.

00:28:35:13 - 00:29:00:14
Randy Von Feldt

Patience is important, right? Like sometimes fintechs are young technology companies. Let's crank out some code. Let's go do this cool thing. And that's great. And that's what we should be doing. And we do that as well and we try to move quickly. We have to understand that the relationship that we have with a bank's customer is simply one part of an overall relationship with the bank house with that customer.

00:29:00:18 - 00:29:18:20
Randy Von Feldt

And we have to truly honor that. Right? So not only does that raise the bar on our level of service to that customer, but it also requires us to take into account a broader picture of those customers and with some of the things that they're going to in other parts of the relationship that they have with the bank.

00:29:18:29 - 00:29:40:04
Randy Von Feldt

And again, honor those parts of the relationship as we do business with those customers. Along with our bank partners. So it's it's, you know, a lot of trust, a lot of patience. It's it's well worth it that we've learned so much from our bank partners. We you know, again, we spent a lot of time talking among ourselves about what we can do next.

00:29:40:04 - 00:29:48:24
Randy Von Feldt

And yeah, I got it. But it's, you know, with all of our bank partnerships, we we believe that it helps us be a better company.

00:29:49:10 - 00:30:01:29
David Heun

Very good. Randy, I really appreciate the time you guys took to be with us today. Appreciate the listening. And keep an eye on the small business aspects of your banking process. That's so very important. And again, thanks for joining us today.

00:30:03:04 - 00:30:03:16
Megan Kakani

Thank you.