Mobile-Enabled Financial Wellness: Strategies to Create a New Path for Consumers

The state of financial wellness in America is often a hotly debated issue and has been a catalyst for innovation. As consumers lean into social media influencers and fintech apps to improve their budgeting, saving, investing and other financial decision-making capabilities, banks have a new mandate and a unique opportunity to make a significant impact: Leverage the powerful combination of digital access, mobile tools and behavioral finance to meet consumers where they are, regardless of the platform or stage of their financial wellness journey. By developing mobile-enabled strategies, banks can create a new financial wellness path for consumers, helping them to enhance their functional skills while also understanding the psychology behind their decisions about money. Panelists discuss the need for banks to go beyond financial literacy offerings, why digital and mobile channels are key to reaching consumers more effectively, and how they can help consumers better understand the emotions, values and life experiences that shape their financial decisions—and how to adjust their behaviors to improve their financial well-being.

Transcription:

Chana Schoenberger (00:10):

I think we're going to get started here. Hi, I'm getting waves from the back. Awesome. You can hear me. Hey, I'm Chana Schoenberger. I'm the Editor-in-Chief of American Banker. Thanks for coming to Digital Banking 2025, which has been great so far. I hope everybody's having fun.So this morning we're going to talk about financial wellness, which is obviously something that all financial institutions have in common, which is that if you don't have financial wellness in your target population, nobody's going to have the money to deposit or invest, and that's game over for you. So this is why it matters to all of us. I have two fantastic executives here. I've got Jerone Abueva, who is the Director and Head of Financial Services Industry B2B Mobility Sales and Solution Development. That is a very long title at Samsung. And I have Jacqueline "Jack" Howard, Head of Money Wellness at Ally Financial, almost wearing Ally purple, but actually wearing more of a future.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (01:06):

I'm in the family.

Chana Schoenberger (01:08):

You're like Allied Ally, right. Okay. So let's talk real quick. Just tell me what your roles are and what your organization is doing for financial wellness right now.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (01:21):

Yeah, so I'll kick off. Hello everybody. I hope you're enjoying the conference so far. So as she mentioned, I'm Jack Howard. I serve as Head of Money Wellness for Ally, which is the nation's largest digital-only bank. And I've been with the company for 15 years in various roles, from leading our corporate citizenship efforts in financial education to serving as chief of staff for our president of Invest. While I was in Invest, I helped to launch our wealth advisory business. During that time, I fell in love with their approach, which was grounded in money psychology. The consultation journey was grounded in money psychology, and I went to our leadership, which we have an amazing leadership at Ally that really accepts disruptive ideas. I said we should offer money psychology and this approach to behavioral finance to everybody. From there, I moved into this role as Head of Money Wellness about two years ago, where I serve as a thought leader and expert in this space.

(02:18):

Also, we launched a curriculum called Ally Money Roots, which is completely free to our customers and community that is grounded in money psychology, really with a goal of helping people to have a better relationship with money. We're finding that we can give everybody all of the skills, all of the amazing products, but until they understand their behaviors with money, regardless of how much you have or don't have, it's very difficult to implement those skills. So that's my role: to help people to have a better relationship with money so that they can hopefully implement those skills and use those products.

Chana Schoenberger (02:48):

Awesome.

Jerone Abueva (02:50):

Hi everyone. I'm Jerone Abueva. So at Samsung, I lead the financial services industry team. Our team is focused on creating solutions and really diving deep into what is the vision of the future for anything technology based. That's working with banks on their branch transformation, working with insurance companies and helping their field workers ensure that they have the best technology tools to help with their productivity. When it comes to overall financial wellness, too, at Samsung, we're very much focused on how you democratize access to all of these digital banking and mobile banking endpoints. How do you really put one of these in front of everyone, whether that is a frontline worker or the underserved communities as well?

Chana Schoenberger (03:39):

Which is funny because I bet that every single person in this room has at least one, if not two phones, right? Yeah. Okay. And it's funny, if you ever look around your house and you say, how many devices are listening to me right now? And you look at the laptops and the phones of every member in the family, we are not the underserved.

Jerone Abueva (04:01):

No, no, we're not.

(04:03):

But there is that population.

Chana Schoenberger (04:05):

Yeah, and it's hard to imagine getting by in America right now without a smartphone, when you think about all of the ways. Most of the conversations we've had here this week have been about digital and mobile and how to move more people to those channels, but of course that starts with the basic premise that you have a phone. Can't do it without a phone. Okay. So Americans, and mostly young people, are getting a lot of their financial advice from social media and from the internet. Apparently, YouTube is the number two search engine in the world. Google, of course, is the number one, and they're the same company. So that's a thing. Where is the place for financial professionals and financial institutions in all this?

Jerone Abueva (04:50):

So it's interesting, right? Because as you said, most people actually go to social media. When you look at the top trends and top topics that people search for on social, financial advice is one of them. However, what's interesting is if you actually look at the level of trust and who do people actually go to when they do want to trust that source and take their advice, banks are still top two after friends and family. So it's really about how do you bring those two worlds together? How can banks actually leverage some of those influencers? But also as you think about your digital footprint, how are you also leveraging your in-person footprints and your branches to potentially pull in some of those influencers that people do listen to and go to, and build those partnerships out to bring that community to engage with your brand?

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (05:46):

And we're really deepening our presence on social media. So humanizing banking is what I like to look at our approach. If you go to Ally's social media, I'm all over it. If you go to my personal social media, you'll see me talking about Ally and really serving as the human face for talking about money. So I think we have to do more of, yes, partnerships with influencers, but as bankers, of course, we have to become best friends with legal, risks, and compliance. Before you do this, I highly recommend that—I just had a call with them this morning. But you have to have a deep partnership with your risk and compliance. But I think we need to be there if people are going on social media to get financial advice from people who typically don't have any certifications, any real professional background.

(06:34):

And we do. So how do we now take all of this expertise that we have and use it for our communities and give that so that we can build that trust? Because I think oftentimes when you think of an institution, of course, I'm not going to trust it because it's this big bank that I don't understand. But when you put a face behind it, I have people who come up to me all the time, "Jack, I know you. I know you from Ally." It really has helped us to humanize our brand. So I deeply believe we need to start going where people are, and they're on social media. So let's build those collaborations with legal, risks, and compliance to ensure that we're doing it the right way.

Chana Schoenberger (07:07):

It's really a problem that the friends and family thing is also an issue, and we're not going to solve that one obviously, because people always ask their friends and family for advice, but you don't necessarily get good advice from your friends and family. I mean, I remember when I had first started out as a journalist, I worked for Forbes, and the whole ideology of Forbes at the time was compounding. So you should start investing early. This is great advice, everyone should do this. But I remember talking to another young reporter my age in our twenties, and she was talking about how although the company had a very generous 401k match, she was not meeting it because she felt like in her twenties she should be having fun with her money and not saving it. I was like, do you read what we write here? She was not reading that.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (07:59):

I have the pleasure of talking to young people all the time about their finances, and exactly what you just talked about, you won't believe the number that one don't understand their benefits. So understanding, do you have a 401k match? Is your company offering tuition reimbursement? Will they pay back your student loans? So many dollars are being left on the table just for that very thing. Also, this idea reminded me of a term in behavioral finance called hyperbolic discounting. We've all seen that marshmallow experiment where, I'll give you one marshmallow now, but if you wait, I'll give you two. You see the kids who will eat it right then, and those who wait. We're seeing that in all areas of life, including money, where there's such impulsivity to get things now, which again goes back to your relationship with money. We're seeing it even more so with young people. We just did a survey where we found that for our younger generation, they are buying things specifically to showcase on social media. So it's this impulsive behavior, and they're doing it with...

Chana Schoenberger (09:06):

BNPL, buy now pay...

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (09:07):

Later, creating debt. It's crazy. I just did an interview on this where I talked about when I went into debt in college, it was to have fun with my friends and go on the road trip. Now young people are going into debt to have that road trip, but take pictures the entire time. So you're missing out on the experience, which I think when we get back to this conversation of money wellness, why are we doing these things? What are the behaviors that you have learned from your family members, that you have learned from society that are creating how you interact with money? And we're definitely seeing it in younger people.

Chana Schoenberger (09:40):

Well, it's all about who are you trying to impress, right? Are you trying to impress total strangers on Instagram? Are you trying to impress your own friends and family? Are you trying to impress your future self because she's going to wake up 30 years from now and she's really going to wish that you had saved for retirement?

Jerone Abueva (09:56):

I think that to the point of banks today, throughout the talks in all of the sessions, it's about, "Well, let's go meet customers where they are." The reality is that retailers and payments, being able to just quickly purchase something on the spot, has become so much easier. Everyone is meeting the customers where they are. With being able to just spend in one click, how do you be able to reach that audience to remind them? I know it's easy to spend at that moment, but you really have to think about what this means in terms of your financial wellness and long-term savings.

Chana Schoenberger (10:31):

Yeah, it's a real question. And embedded finance, of course, which just brings everything one or two steps closer to meeting people where they are. It also means that it's incredibly frictionless. That's not always a good thing, certainly not for your financial health. So every bank has a financial wellness offering. How does a bank differentiate themselves and serve their own customers best in this area?

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (10:56):

So I mentioned I've been with Ally for 15 years, and I spent about 10 years of that in financial literacy and then more time in our invest business thinking of products. I think how we decided to differentiate with the work that I'm doing now in money wellness is yes, we have to deliver really amazing products. Yes, we want you to understand the skills of investing, budgeting, and credit. You must know all those things. But we had this "aha" moment of understanding that just because you know the right thing to do doesn't mean you do it. When you know better doesn't necessarily mean you do better. And our approach has been, yes, we want you to understand those skills and products, but I also need you to understand the behaviors behind what you do. So why is it that when I see that item pop up on social media, it feels good when I buy it?

(11:43):

Why? Let's get under that and help customers just take a moment to understand that. And that's what we're doing through our Money Roots program of helping people to understand one, what is your money story? What are your earliest memories of money? What did you learn from your family about money? How is that impacting you today? What are your beliefs around money, conscious and subconscious beliefs? What are your values? If we could just take a moment and think of what your values are and financial goals and tie those two together, it stops so much of this impulsive buying that we would see because you're looking at it through a lens of your values and the impact that you want to make on the world. So we offer classes in these areas really with the goal of bringing awareness that this is even a thing. I love teaching the classes. We get so many people who say, "I never thought of it that way. I just thought I was bad at money. I just thought I was horrible and just stayed in credit card debt and had all this shame." But when you're really able to get under it, it opens up an opportunity for people to have a better relationship with money and to get back to those skills and actually using the products and building wealth and having a better relationship with money.

Jerone Abueva (12:50):

In terms of what we've been focused on in our conversations with our banking partners, it's really about today when we think about financial literacy, we always break it up in the conversations about how are you serving the underserved communities. But the other part of that is how are you reaching the younger audiences? When you take a look at Gen Z today, 80% of them are actually really stressed about their finances and financial literacy. We believe at Samsung it needs to start from the time they're really young. So kids need to be educated at a much younger age. And if we are putting a device in kids' hands at a younger age and they're learning how to use technology, they need to be educated on finances as well. Although there are partners in this space or providers in this space, such as Greenlight, that do provide the applications to these kids, sure, banks have those partnerships with them, but how are you ensuring that the parents and the kids are actually using the application and really getting the most out of that educational tool? So at Samsung, we're very focused on how do we ensure we allow these tools or help enable these tools to reach the hands of these kids and actually help them really understand the fun and benefits of being able to get on the app, learn from the app, understand if they do chores, how do they save from that, and how to set aside goals for themselves as well.

Chana Schoenberger (14:11):

Yeah, in preparation for this, I was thinking about, there used to be a thing where when you were a scout, you could get a merit badge for basically financial management. I went and looked it up, and that's still true. So someone in Scouts BSA, which is the old Boy Scouts, you can get what's called a personal financial management merit badge. And there's a whole long list of things you have to do to meet this badge, including making a budget, talking to your parents about a major purchase the family is trying to afford and how they're going to make that happen. It's fascinating, right? Imagine getting a child involved in, "We want to buy a car, but here are the pros and cons of us buying a car. Can we afford it? How do we save for it? What are we going to not do so that we can buy this car?" And then the kid has to learn about investing, which is great. I mean, I was really encouraged to see, but of course not every child is a Boy Scout, even though now...

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (15:03):

Yeah, and I think what I'm hearing you say is a conversation. Exactly. We have to start having these conversations early, and we have to have them throughout our lifetime. It shouldn't just end when you become an adult. These are conversations that you want to have with your adult children as well, but they're not happening. And when you grow up in a household where you never talked about money, where you are hearing messages that money is bad or money is evil or "we'll never have enough," believe it or not, I see it time and time again in how we teach the classes. We teach them over Zoom; they're live classes. We keep 'em pretty small with about under 50 people so that they can show up and feel that they can be vulnerable. But what I hear over and over again is, "My parents didn't talk about money. I feel unsafe about money." You hear it, and then people start to see the connection of how those messages show up for them today, because "my mother made me save half of my income when I was in high school and I resented it. Now I'm an over-spender," and really making those connections in our classes, it's mind-blowing when people are able to realize, "That's why I do what I do with money." But it starts with those conversations of what if that mother had told her son, "I'm making you save half of this money because of X, and let me explain to you Y." A lot of those things aren't happening, and it creates all of this distrust as folks get older.

Chana Schoenberger (16:27):

And the other thing that I feel like there isn't enough conversation around is there are a lot of avenues, especially tax-advantaged vehicles that exist that I feel like only the upper middle class knows about—not just 401k matches, but things like Roth IRAs or crucially 529s. You should start a 529 for your baby basically when you get home from the hospital with that newborn. But people either don't know about it or they don't feel that it's okay to start with a small amount of money, when of course that's the only thing that matters.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (17:02):

Start somewhere. Again, those are all messages that we've heard in fear. There's this fear that "I'm not wealthy, only wealthy people have 529 accounts." Again, having those conversations, I think through the program that you have, what we're doing at Ally where we're delivering, we also have to deliver this information in a way that people can receive it. And it's not felt as jargon. It's not felt that there's a wealth advisor talking at you about what you should be doing instead of it being more collaborative. I encourage more banks to have this type of human approach to banking to where people can feel comfortable saying, "Actually, I don't know what a 529 account is, but I know I should be saving for my kids."

Jerone Abueva (17:40):

A good question, but I think that that's the point, too, in terms of when you say start somewhere, I fully agree with that. And this whole notion of, "Well, I don't have enough." We hear this a lot, too, because we focus in on the frontline workers and how do you help the frontline workers, especially in a retail space, for example, who have these jobs where they're inconsistent, they're not sure about their hours, how do you get them started on a financial wellness path? It's also how can banks reach those individuals who are these folks who again, have those inconsistent schedules, but get them to start thinking about, "Okay, what if you could set aside this amount?" But also how are you partnering with retailers to provide their frontline employees a means to actually educate them and give them the right financial tools to save as well?

Chana Schoenberger (18:28):

So there's a lot of innovation going on in that area. This was one of our Innovation of the Year winners. I don't know if you all saw this one, but Starling Bank won in the embedded finance category. And that's actually what they did is they partnered with DoorDash. DoorDash has some sort of an app where drivers can go on and accept gigs, and they did an embedded finance offering right in that app where instead of getting paid on gift cards, the drivers were getting actual accounts, checking accounts that they could use that were normal bank accounts, full featured. And then in many cases, it was the first time they had had a bank account with access to the financial system.

Jerone Abueva (19:10):

It's interesting you say that, too, because as I mentioned earlier, the reason we're focused on how can we help banks target the underserved populations is, even the name of this conference is digital banking, and everyone keeps focusing on, "We want to invest in digital platforms." However, when we look at the underserved population, 25% of them actually don't have access to a decent smartphone. So although there are these investments being made, it's not being made for that particular segment of the community. That's where we think about, what if you could provide a better value smartphone or a better working device to these underserved communities? This gives them access to then tap into the gig economy and from there, build their way out of where they are today and start building that financial path for them.

Chana Schoenberger (20:02):

In just a minute, I'm going to ask if you all have any questions. So start thinking of your questions now. Behavioral finance is super interesting. It's probably the most fascinating topic and psychology because it explains why we do what we do with money even when we're not rational about it. So what is the biggest behavioral financial issue that's impacting bank customers?

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (20:25):

I mentioned hyperbolic discounting just a moment ago. This whole idea of you'll take small amounts now because it's immediate and forego really long-term better opportunities because it's in the future. I see that a lot specifically with our younger generation. They are definitely spending more impulsively, not thinking of the future. So that's one thing. I also teach a class called Money and You where we help people to dig into what are your emotions around money. We have this whole emotion wheel where people can talk about how they're feeling right now. For this year, the words that I'm seeing over and over again are, "I'm anxious, I feel depressed, I feel ashamed." So I think when I look at this world of money psychology and behavioral finance, the biggest trend is I think people need to know that it even exists. They need to know that your feelings around money show up everywhere else, and it's a part of your total wellbeing.

(21:29):

It's going to show up in how you show up for your career, how you show up in your relationships. When you think of your physical health, your money is one of the top reasons why people are not sleeping at night. So I think it's really gaining this understanding that those emotions I mentioned earlier are valid and it's showing up in your life. And also this idea of hyperbolic discounting. We are not thinking about the future. Obviously, we see that with all the work that you do and the stories you've done on people not saving for the future. But getting rid of this impulsive behavior, becoming more mindful for today is something I would like to see more of, which we're doing through the work with Money Roots. We also have a partnership with Calm the meditation app where they have a series called Navigating Financial Stress. So just really helping people to get their arms wrapped around this is about more than the skills and the products. There's a layer under it that may be stopping you.

Chana Schoenberger (22:27):

What I love about Gen Zs, I'm sure you all work with Gen Zs, is they're much more willing than those of us who are millennials or Gen Xers to just flat out tell you what they think. If a Gen Z doesn't want to go to dinner with a group of people, they are more likely to say, "That sounds great, but not for me this time. I'll catch up with you later." As opposed to someone my generation would come up with some sort of a fake excuse: "Oh, I've got a work dinner that night, I've got to see my family," or some sort of obvious nonsense. But we would feel like we have to create a social distance. Gen Zs don't do that. And so I imagine the same is true about money that if they can understand what they're feeling, that they could actually say to their friends, "Hey, that trip sounds awesome. I can't afford it right now. Maybe next time."

Jerone Abueva (23:14):

I agree with that. It's interesting you say that, too, because when we were doing some research in terms of Gen Zs and millennials and do they actually seek out financial advice and do they want that financial advice, we found 72% of Gen Zs really are trying to seek that. And it's about, again, how are you able to provide that where they are, whether that is online and through an app and providing them those classes and courses, or if they need that face-to-face interaction. Because sometimes talking about your finances can be a bit daunting when you don't really know where to start. Being able to really go into a branch and speak to somebody about that, a financial advisor, is I think also key. And that's something that constantly comes up when we have conversations with our customers is how do they create these spaces as well so that the Gen Zs feel welcome to come into their branches and have those conversations about their wellness.

Chana Schoenberger (24:06):

Great. Great. Okay. I have more conversation questions, but I'd love to see if there are audience questions at this point. If you have one, raise your hand, and we have a microphone right here down front.

Audience Member 1 (24:27):

Thank you. Hi. I guess my question is around, I agree with everything you're saying here, but it seems like are there ways that financial institutions can either force or embed or for lack of a better word, trick customers into actually seeing these fiscal behavioral awareness-type activities that you're talking about? Can you bring that to the customers and almost force them versus just giving access to information and teachings for those customers that are seeking it? Because it seems like everyone really needs this, but is there a way that that can be done? And in your opinion, is that even the responsibility of the financial institution or is that not a bank's prerogative?

Chana Schoenberger (25:16):

So this is nudges or setting defaults. There was a big movement a number of years ago to default every new joiner in a company into a 401k. You could opt yourself out of it if you really just couldn't spare the money, but they would default you in and then at least you'd be saving at the lowest level.

Jerone Abueva (25:38):

So I think that one of the ways that that can be done is, again, because we work with some of the largest retailers that have this frontline workforce that are provided now these devices, I think that there's a way for banks to potentially partner with these large companies to help them think about their frontline. And what does overall wellness for that frontline mean? Meaning that it's not just about the financial wellness aspect, but how can the retailers help provide consistency as well? If these folks are being provided a device, at Samsung, we do help send those notifications out saying, "Hey, frontline, this is something you need to be thinking about." That's just on their day-to-day jobs. So outside of that, if they're still carrying these devices, how can banks also be using that? Again, if the bank is helping, let's say a Walmart or a Target, how are they providing those notifications saying, "Hey, reminder, employee might want to check this," or, "Today's payday, have you thought about setting this aside for your baseline needs?" I think it's those constant reminders. So it's not necessarily a force, but it is those nudges to remind them.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (26:44):

Yeah, I don't know if we can force, but your question made me think, again, if your employer is giving a match, why wouldn't you do it? So for me, it's more of the question. It's a no-brainer. Why wouldn't you sign up for that? I think it gets to, in my opinion, for banks, our approach. Oftentimes people are looking at banks, they're afraid of it, they're afraid to ask questions. They don't want to feel inadequate in the conversation. So my approach will be for the banks is how are we giving the information to where people are able to receive it? I think, as I mentioned earlier, when we think about social media, how do we show up as banks for it not to be this sterile relationship to where I'm truly your ally? I had to throw that in there, but I'm truly your ally in banking. I'm a human that's here to help you your entire wealth journey. So I think for banks, we need to show up differently in the conversation so that people are willing to hear it and it's not forced. So...

Chana Schoenberger (27:42):

It's almost a marketing challenge.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (27:44):

It really is a marketing challenge. It's like the banking industry needs a rebrand of "We truly can. It can be inclusive." This relationship with money needs a rebrand of it not being something that's so scary. But once you get some of those fundamentals down, it really can create joy and all those things that we talked about, those stressors. We just did a survey and we found that 80% of consumers are stressed out about money, and that's regardless of income. So when we look at it through that lens of the responsibility of helping people to not only get money but enjoy it, that's a different conversation.

Chana Schoenberger (28:21):

And that's banking, right? That's saving. When you go to investing, the stat in wealth management, I haven't seen the most recent figures, but typically it's something like 90% of assets will move when the primary account holder leaves or dies. Really? So this is where you get, if people inherit money, if Gen Xers or millennials inherit money from their Boomer parents, they will typically not have a relationship with that financial advisor and they'll just take their money and run. The institution will never see that money again in many cases because the new account holder feels like the advisor is talking down to them or not answering their questions. In many cases, you'll get a woman who is inheriting money and she feels like the male advisor really isn't speaking directly to her, and she has the power and she just takes her money and runs.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (29:14):

Yeah, that's one of the reasons when I was on the wealth team for Ally, our consultation journey was grounded in money psychology and behavioral finance. One of the first questions we ask a client is, "What is your first memory of money?" It's with the goal of helping us to understand what's really important to you. Yes, I can help your portfolio to grow to a point to where you're able to retire, but how do I make it so that you don't pull it out when we have market volatility? So really understanding the why behind their money really shifts the relationship so that it's not, as I mentioned earlier, sterile and transactional, to one where I understand that your deeper goal is X, and I'm going to call you because I understand what some of your triggers are in the behavioral finance world, and I'm going to keep you on track. But that is the relationship that you need to have with your bank and your advisor to know that that is even something to be on the watch out for.

Jerone Abueva (30:07):

I think what's interesting about that is, to your point, talking about women, once they receive generational wealth or that wealth is passed down—this was actually during another summit—we learned that within the first year, women actually tend to switch advisors versus the rest of the population. A lot of that is because they don't build that relationship. And to your point with folks needing to feel like they can go to their financial advisors, a lot of that is also change management. How are you training these folks to be able to build the new types of relationships and engagement ways to engage and communicate with our customers and clients that really resonate with that audience today? I think that that's going to be a big part of it. It's not just saying, "Okay, financial advisors, go reach out to your customers." How do you train a financial advisor, whether it's a day one employee versus a long-term employee, to provide that same level of service and comfort and be able to truly build that trust?

Chana Schoenberger (31:07):

And then when you think about the other emerging data point is crypto and the more gamified investing apps. That's what customers are thinking about when they're deciding between a bank and where else they could put their money. It's like, "Oh, well, I can go and buy crypto and that'll be really fun."

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (31:30):

That scares me when you just said that. Yeah.

Chana Schoenberger (31:33):

Yeah. I've had a number of conversations with bankers recently and other professionals where they tell me that their teen and 20-something children overwhelmingly don't bank with the parent's own institution. Mom and dad work at the bank, but the kids want to trade crypto, and they think that trading crypto is investing.

Jerone Abueva (31:55):

That's an interesting fact.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (31:56):

That is very interesting. At Ally, we've done, and I have a 16-year-old, so I'm knee-deep in this right now.

Chana Schoenberger (32:03):

Me too. Yeah.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (32:03):

Yeah. He's been with me through this money journey of spend, save, give when you're little, to we've done a stock market investing challenge with SFA to now he's met with my financial advisor. But again, I think that goes back to we have to have these conversations of, and even for the parents, if your kid is investing in crypto, do they fully understand it? So that's education, that's a conversation starter that you can have as a family about money and how do we invest, how do we ensure that our values are aligned with the things that we invest in? Also, we want to make sure we understand what we're doing because I bet that same teenager is going to social media to get the information that they need versus a bank. So I think it's again, up to us as bankers, if we're hearing her say that young people are going and investing in crypto, how do we now show up as a source of information? For Ally, we have a blog called Conversationally where we try to pull in topics like this to help people to have better thoughtful conversations on some of these topics that you may not know as much about. So now you're going to that 16-year-old with more information.

Jerone Abueva (33:14):

Yeah, Jack, I was going to say, I think that that's going to be the biggest thing, understanding, to your point, these topics that do come up and how are you incorporating that into the curriculum and having dynamic enough content to be able to push that out as soon as you start seeing that as a new topic and trend that is coming up in social.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (33:31):

I don't think we can run from it. We have to have these conversations. Oh.

Chana Schoenberger (33:33):

Right, totally. And the last thing I'll say is just that we wrote an article last year, which those of you who are American Banker subscribers would've seen, basically. There was this great situation where someone went on TikTok, some sort of influencer, and did a video about an amazing hack that they had discovered where you could go to an ATM and type in some codes and you could get free money. What it was is they were basically stealing, just flat-out check fraud, old-school check fraud. And this is illegal, just for the avoidance of doubt, you can't actually do this. But all these kids were seeing this on TikTok and they were like, "Oh, what a great idea. The bank will give me free money." That isn't mine. That's what we call theft. So they did it. A number of them went to ATMs and tried this hack, and they all got arrested because as it turns out, you cannot defraud the bank.

Jacqueline "Jack" Howard (34:32):

And you can't get free money from ATMs. That's the lesson we all need to learn today. It is no such thing.

Chana Schoenberger (34:37):

Right? But it's like those are your customers. So if customers are that misinformed and are getting their advice from a really bad source, there's got to be some role for banks in stepping in.

Jerone Abueva (34:49):

What is it? 42% of folks actually don't feel like they do have financial literacy and wellness. So there you go. There's 42% of the population running to those ATMs.

Chana Schoenberger (34:58):

So it's a big greenfield for you guys.

Jerone Abueva (35:00):

Anyway, thank you for joining us.