Learning Objectives:
- What technologies (Web3) will change the GenZ experience with payments?
- As the tip of the spear for product innovation, how is social shopping driving the intersection of Web3 and finance for the smartphone generation
- Can you always spot disruptive innovation? What about positively transformative technology?
Presentation Narrator (00:09):
Hi everybody. We are going to kick off for their next panel Exploring Financial and Technology Habits of Gen Zs, what innovation will drive the next generation of payment.
Jason Holly (00:24):
Thank you so much. My name is Jason Holly. I am going to be moderating the session today. I am a director at Impact Partners. We do strategic communications with venture capital firms, portfolio companies, family offices, etcetera. So I will start here in the middle. Lauren Tierney is a Venture Investor with Decas Sonic. To mine left is Lisa Friedman, the President and Co-founder of Quadra. And at the end of the table is Jackson Obama, correct. Senior Associate at Motivate Ventures, where he focuses on early stage investments in FinTech and B2B software. So I think, so to kick it off today, let us just dive right into it. I think we really want to touch on Gen Z and Web three and what it means for the next generation of users when it comes to payments, when it comes to really all facets of this sort of technology. So I think first what we should probably do is maybe lay the groundwork and level set on what it means when we refer to web three and just demystify that and then take the discussion from there. So let us just kind of dig into it. I guess what would be the best way for us to think about web three when we throw that term out there?
Jackson Obama (01:48):
Well, I will start from a bit of a more traditional view. I think the way I think about Web three and how it impacts younger consumers and payments more broadly is from a first principle standpoint, the foundational principles of Web three, which have introduced new paradigms of ownership of privacy and data security of flexibility. And I think that the younger generation of consumers, not just Gen Zs, millennials too, I think fall into that category are more digitally native than any generation in history. And they are more used to interacting with financial services in those ways. So I think in many ways, web three technology and sort of the core principles appeal to the younger generation and when it comes to finance that is sort of foreign until very recently.
Lauren Tierney (02:39):
Yeah, I will just add to that on what Web three is not because if you ask me Web three needs a rebrand, a lot of people think Web three is NFTs of board ape yachts, and that is not what Web three is about. Web three is about technology called the blockchain that fundamentally is making consumer interactions easier, more seamless and transparent and safer. At Decas Sonic, we look at web three to encapsulate cryptocurrency, but also the immersive web and AR and VR and the metaverse and this opportunity to own our identity and digital assets.
Lisa Friedman (03:19):
Well said, very little to add there apart from the speed of transactions which can occur in Web three supported by blockchain technology, which I think is quite relevant for our discussion today.
Jason Holly (03:31):
Excellent, thank you. So I think the first question let us dig into would be the technologies that are going to change the Gen Z experience with payments. what is sort of the expectation now when we think about web three, when we think about the blockchain? Is it just speeding everything up or is there sort of more beneath the surface when we think about this?
Lisa Friedman (03:57):
Well, I think maybe even before going to blockchain technology, we should acknowledge the fact that today technology itself online bank, bank and digital banking represents such a large proportion of the way everybody including the Gen Zers does banking. So according to recent consumer survey by pwc, 32% of individuals they surveyed digitally native. And the way they define it is they do not see a need for a branch to exist for their banking operations. They can not always open a bank account without going to a branch, but they have a preference to never have a face-to-face interaction. And what that means in general for web two and web three is that digital identity is becoming also more important in that context. So rather than being able to see somebody and verify them, technologists need to exist that allow for liveness checks and other checks to prevent fraud and so forth for consumers to interact fully digitally and this train of more and more people feeling comfortable with technology in general and blockchain technology is only going to continue. And of course we see it more prevalent among the Gen Z generation.
Lauren Tierney (05:25):
To add to your point, I think the stat is that 68% of Gen Z prefers using Venmo, Zelle, PayPal or cryptocurrency to transact. So they are very trusting of transacting in this digital way. And as we see this evolve, we look at companies like Venmo, including cryptocurrency, I believe they announced three days ago that soon you are going to be able to buy crypto and transact to different personal wallets on Venmo. And I think that is a great example of where mainstream is happening of cryptocurrency because they are meeting Gen Z where they are already transacting, where they are already native to using these platforms, they understand it, they trust it, and now they will continue to incorporate new ways to transact. And to add to that, 44% of Gen Z believes that a digital wallet is just as safe as a physical wallet. Whether that is true or it is not true, that is how Gen Z looks at their digital interactions when it comes to their finances. So we will just see this continue to increase when they are, as their trust continues to increase and how digital native they are when it comes to financial transactions.
Jackson Obama (06:33):
Yeah, look, I mean I think crypto and blockchain technology certainly brings the promise of faster and cheaper transactions. I guess the more traditionally rooted example of this recent innovation would be pulling from the panel earlier about realtime wages, streaming wages with daily pay and RTP and Fed Now here in this summer, that is a great example I think of some of the values that crypto has promised in that blockchain technology promises. So we are seeing some of that innovation in traditional financial services. But I think part of what is cool about blockchain technology and some of the stuff that crypto has enabled is some of the flexibility. I mean whether or not it is a large percentage of consumers today, having the ability to one, prove that you have done something, prove value for a counterparty and then be able to access financial services from said counterparty or from some intermediary, intermediary that is not a credit scoring system or a bank is pretty interesting. Who knows what the longevity of defi pools, for example, being able to access loans from. But that sort of ethos, removing the intermediary or being more based on merit or value production versus traditional data metrics or traditional financial services measures is pretty interesting.
Jason Holly (07:54):
I want to dig in a little bit to one aspect, Lauren, that you touched on, which is trust in these technologies and how Gen Z is so trusting of a digital wallet just as much as they are physical wallet. And I think a lot of the businesses and folks that are here today, the business really functions on trust fundamentally. So I want to unpack that a little bit and is there something that is happening with Web three and blockchain backed sort of ways of making payments that make those things particularly trustworthy or credible for the Gen Z user? Is it the functionality of it? Is it the usability? Is it the aesthetic sort of process there? What, what is happening you think?
Lauren Tierney (08:43):
I can not speak to the backend as well, but I think it is because they are digitally native. All they've ever known, gen Z grew up in a time where the internet was always prevalent in their lives. So they are digitally native and they trust these softwares no matter whether it is always the right thing to trust. But I think as we see this going forward, there is going to be more trust because in web three, the fundamentals of it are privacy, trust and data ownership. And we know that Gen Z really cares about owning their own data and being able to prove that in ways, whether it is through Venmo in transactions or whether it is through blockchain and crypto on chain.
Jackson Obama (09:26):
Yeah, I mean just quickly on the trust piece, I mean there are tons of survey that is out there that Gen Z is far more willing to share financial data with technology companies or financial institutions than any generation previously. A lot of that is being digital native, but I think a lot of that is not an effort to extract more personalized financial services. So crypto obviously is a huge asset class for younger generations, but actually seeing some return on that data exchange I think is what young customers are looking for. And if there is a way to prove that you have given some value or that you have created some value with some sort of blockchain infrastructure, it seems like an efficient way to do that, I think, excellent.
Jason Holly (10:11):
Any thoughts on that?
Lisa Friedman (10:13):
Yes, great point, Jackson. It has to do somewhat with the source of wealth for Gen Zers. And a lot of them are extracting value from the blockchain securities and environments applications. And so for them it is natural, okay, this is my self custody wallet, I have earned some yield here, now I am going to pay for some service using this cryptocurrency. So it is just part of the experience and it is quite seamless experience technologically, somebody who does not have a digital wallet can set it up within a matter of seconds if there is identity aspect required, they can take a selfie in another 30 seconds and then boom, they are authorized, then it is checked that they are not on sanctions list, publish watch list, and then they can interact within a more compliance aware environment versus the traditional experience of setting up a bank account is quite a bit more involved. And so that is probably where this drive comes from for just faster, instant gratification type of opportunity.
Jason Holly (11:30):
I want to dig in a little bit also to this idea of disruption. And I know a lot of us here might be working in within models that might be considered sort of the status quo. So when we think about, or maybe not, but when we think about web three and Gen Z behaviors, what aspects of what is coming is going to be sort of disruption? What aspects might integrate with older systems or older ways of thinking? I guess the bottom line really is what are we going to really feel the most when we think about web three, when we think about how Gen Z's behaviors are going to drive new trends?
Lisa Friedman (12:10):
So I think what we are seeing today is that this behaviors unnoticed by both established players in the financial services industry, including payments as well as the startups. And so what we are seeing from the established players is they already have the technology that has been used for some time, but they are also paying attention to new technologies and starting to think of ways of how blockchain in particular can support transactions of the future. And I think the common thread among established institutions and startups, startups goes back to what Lauren said earlier, meeting the users where they are regardless of the generation. And so if it is used in blockchain technology, great, then there is an opportunity to do so and support Gen Zers. And the way startups are approaching it is in some ways it is easier. They have a blank piece of paper. And so they are just creating a solution with this new technology and working on adoption. And then from the prominent financial institutions that exist today, they are building on their legacy and introducing new technologies more as a pilot way to do business. But everybody seems to be paying attention. As Lauren said, even just last week we heard the announcements from Venmo, PayPal, American Express, so sorry, MasterCard. MasterCard. Thank you. Yes, working on this new technologies
Jason Holly (13:49):
Jackson. Oh sorry. I wonder, I want to touch on Jackson's point of view really quick. Sorry to cut you off just cause I know from your perspective you are looking at FinTech, you are looking at sort of maybe early stage company. So I want to get your thoughts on this idea of disruption.
Jackson Obama (14:07):
Yeah, it is a big word I think with regards to payments and blockchain infrastructure. If you think about why payments are expensive or slow, it is a very sort of broad stroke there. A lot of it has to do with KYC or KYB, figuring out who the payee and the payor are. It is a very burdensome process. It is often manual. You are often working with incomplete information. And I think the idea of being able to verify digitally and sort of assuredly things that things you have done right, value you have created or things about yourself that make you a trustworthy transaction participant have the ability to speed up payments quite a bit if you just eliminate the manual process, the time, the resources, the cost associated with figuring out can this person pay someone and can this person receive, should I send this money to someone? I think then you have a pretty good case for speeding up payments. And because so much of what younger consumers are doing is one online and also two more diverse than any generation previously, they are far more diverse income streams than previous generations and a lot of those happen to be online. So I think an interesting concept is being able to unify that track record, that history of work or value that you have created. It could be art, it could be actual work, and then how that can be sort of pumped into the sort of payment rail I think is a really interesting concept.
Lauren Tierney (15:46):
Quickly on the topic of disruption, to your point, MasterCard launched Crypto source a way to integrate payments in crypto to their customers. And in that study of launching that, they found that 69% of customers were actually interested in getting involved in crypto, but they felt most comfortable doing it through their known and trusted financial institutions. And at Decas Sonic we focus on mainstream adoption of blockchain technology. So we are not looking to disrupt behavior and make consumers do a completely different action and go somewhere completely different because that is not going to happen. That is not going to happen overnight. This big disruption. What is going to happen, I believe, is that slowly these trusted entities are going to integrate the best of blockchain, the best of crypto, the best web three has to offer because just like a lot of you in this room probably do not know how the internet works, you just use it every day. You do not need to know how blockchain works, you do not even need to call it blockchain. You should just have the benefits and it should be working in the background to give you a better experience.
Jason Holly (16:49):
And I think that kind of leads into my next thought here in terms of scaling and what factors might impact the ability to scale web three in this sort of the payments universe or in terms of fueling its mainstream adoption. So any thoughts on scaling and any issues that might arise or anything that might help it along?
Lisa Friedman (17:15):
Yes, so one hurdle though to scale in is making sure that the compliance and regulatory frameworks are taken into account when transactions happen. Not just payments, but any financial transactions. And when we will look at permissionless ecosystem on blockchain, so decentralized finance where anybody with a digital wallet can come and interact, that actually creates a barrier for many financial institutions which are regulated to be able to interact in those ecosystems in size. And so one of the reasons why we started our company focused on identity is because while we understand the importance of protecting sensitive information, we also recognize having worked in financial services for many years prior, that in order for mass adoption to happen, two things need to occur. One is institutions need to feel comfortable interacting and bringing liquidity into the systems and knowing if they have mitigated the risk of coming, going with bad actors who may be present in the unknown actors type of scenarios.
(18:30)
And secondly, as Lauren mentioned, it is the technological aspect, the technological barrier which may exist for people who are not today savvy enough to set up their own digital wallets and keep custody of their digital assets and remember the past phrases and so forth. And so it is really another role that institutions in this particular environment can play where they are providing a broader range of services and a broader range of pathways to payments and other transactions by giving their users and customers a familiar interface for those interactions. So the complexity of blockchain technology is happening behind the scenes and it is enabling faster transactions, broader access, lower costs of those transactions ultimately, but yet removing the potential additional technological challenges.
Jackson Obama (19:35):
I think there are a lot of ways to go with this. I guess I will rattle some off. One is sort of a second order effect, but like a liquid marketplace for example, in the same way that there are many senders of RT on the RTP network and not a lot of receivers, albeit for different reasons. It seems that there are a lot of people that want to use crypto to do things right, to send value. Are there enough people on the other end of that transaction on the other end of that trade that actually want crypto as the asset on their balance sheet or however it is sort of accounted. Once we start to see the other side of the trade there gain some adoption. If there is sort of a liquid market, people will make trade so to speak. I think regulation is another big point.
(20:23)
Jumping off your earlier point, I think it is be hard pressed to ask consumers to adopt something that is on shaky regulatory foundation. Certainly people that are not Gen Z or millennials, we will be a majority of the sort of financial consumers at some point, but until then there are a lot of other people you have to account for. And even so if it is the regulatory landscape is always in flux with regards to crypto or anything touching blockchain and financial services, I think it is a pretty big hurdle. And this is a, well, a well defined example, but the consumer experience, I mean a perfect example is sort of AI and chat GPT, my mom and my uncle and my brother have all used chat GPT. it is super, super easy to access the stuff open AI is doing and generally the stuff that is happening in AI, it is certainly not that way in crypto today. I do not know what it takes to get there, but I think that is a pretty good analog
Lauren Tierney (21:27):
Kind of contradictory to your point. But I go to crypto conferences all over the world and everyone says this, the UX needs to get better, needs to get easier to use, my mom needs to use it, I have said it before, we need to build better products. If they are not solving problems, if they are not sticky, if they are not making your life better, easier, more seamless, then it does not matter how good the UX is because if it is solving a massive problem in your life, you are going to jump through hoops to use a product. But if it is not solving a problem and it is hard to use, then no, of course you are not going to use it. So I think the UX needs to get better. that is a no-brainer, but we have to build better products that solve big problems in people's lives. And quite frankly, in the US right now, there is less of a use case than overseas for crypto transactions.
(22:13)
There is places where certain types of people can not have a bank account. There is PA places where you can not send money across borders. There is places where crypto is actually changing lives and giving people livelihood, and that is incredible. But in the US, the use cases do need to get better. And some of the products I am seeing as an investor, I am looking at group savings accounts overseas and some really interesting use cases where crypto makes a ton of sense, but the UX needs to get better and we need to build better stickier products that solve problems in people's lives.
Jackson Obama (22:43):
Yeah, I actually agree a hundred percent. I do not think the UX matters at all. Rather it is like the user's experience with a problem. Does crypto or does a web three solution solve something, right? I think maybe chat GPT is halfway there, hey, it helps me make, find a great recipe or expedite some of my menial tasks at work. Maybe you would not consider that hair on fire, but I do not find many solutions today or many examples today were like, holy crap, this web three experience really made my life 10x better. We will get there at some point, but I do think those need to be better defined at some point.
Jason Holly (23:28):
Do I want to ask a little bit about the compliance side of this and
Lauren Tierney (23:34):
Fun topics?
Jason Holly (23:34):
Yeah, no, I mean just from a general standpoint, I have a family member that works in compliance, so I kind of see the stipulations here or just kind, I can imagine that there are a lot of potential roadblocks. I guess if we can just talk about that generally. And is there a viable path forward past a lot of the compliance checks that are in place currently to keep everything glued together, if you will? Is there a viable way forward? Maybe if we do not know, then I guess we do not know, but I just wanted to put that out there as well.
Lisa Friedman (24:10):
We certainly believe so otherwise we would not be business bringing compliance aware solutions. But it is quite challenging figuring out what will and will not be compliant when there is not necessarily clear regulation around crypto in general. Now, there are some aspects of compliance which are known and sometimes jurisdiction dependent. So for example, KYC and KYB. So when you are dealing with know your business aspects of compliance, depending on the jurisdiction, ultimate beneficial owners may represent either 10% or more, 25% or more. So then when someone is working on a global solution like ourselves, we have to figure out what is the right tool to bring to our partners to enable their global activities. And so it is a difficult balance at times to achieve, but we are definitely looking at those compliance frameworks that exist today to create identity solutions that enable more compliance awareness in the crypto ecosystem to bring more institutions, more liquidity, and ultimately more use cases and more useful products that go beyond collateralized lending in Defi, for instance.
Jason Holly (25:40):
Yeah, sounds like we all have to go to Washington DC and
Lauren Tierney (25:46):
What I will say is regulation is clearly unclear in the US but in other parts of the world, they are investing a lot in regulation and we will get beat in the US on mainstream adoption and really winning this race if we do not have better regulation and clear guidelines.
Jason Holly (26:05):
Okay.
Jackson Obama (26:06):
Yeah, I mean I think it is much more likely that we have some sort of mainstream adoption of some blockchain based solution versus crypto, whether as a store value, a currency or an asset. We work quite closely with banks and software companies that work with banks, and it is been made pretty clear that banks should steer clear of crypto for the time being, which is unfortunate because a lot of the customers that banks want to acquire and need to appeal to would to have access to crypto. But it feels like sort of the third rail right now, at least from an institutional standpoint. And at the end of the day, they usher in a lot of the consumer adoption of financial products because their life depends on it, especially the long tail. They have no choice but to go after these young customers.
Lauren Tierney (26:59):
One thing I think is really important to note is web three is not crypto and blockchain is not crypto, crypto is a currency that runs on the blockchain and there is many different blockchains, but blockchain is an incredible technology and tool to do a range of different things, store data, we are using it for identity, we are using it for so many different things. Supply chain, the use cases I see of blockchain today are infinite. Crypto specifically I think gets associated with web three and blockchain, but it is just one use case.
Jason Holly (27:32):
That is a great point, thanks for making that distinction. Before we open it up for Q&A here, I think for the next minute, I think maybe we can zoom out a little bit and talk sort of big picture and what does the future look like for web three? And I guess what I am curious about is the speed at which we can see web three beginning to permeate sort of the broader system in a way that we really truly are seeing it, that we are feeling it more than just sort of discussing it here. Yeah. What are your thoughts there?
Jackson Obama (28:09):
I can go first.
Lauren Tierney (28:11):
When I look at web three outside of cryptocurrency, I think the future is incredibly bright and incredibly inspiring. Web three I said, is the immersive web is AR, VR is so many other use cases. And one thing I am looking at a ton of right now is AR and VR for learning in schools for kids education. These really alert immersive learning experiences for pilots, for doctors, for all these people where learning is a huge capital cost. This ability to have immersive experiences like never before is really going to be a big part of our future. And then I think another thing I am really excited about, we will give you two things I could talk forever on this is for healthcare. I just talked to a company that is solving neurological disorders using VR headsets because they are that immersive that they can stimulate different parts of your brain.
(29:04)
And then the third thing that I love talking about is data. How many times have you gone to the doctor's office and filled out the same form and then you go to the next one and they give you a pencil for some reason and just really like to frustrate. You have pieces of your identity all over the internet, you do not own them. Other people are profiting on your data and blockchain promises, this idea of owning your digital identity. If I was overseas and I needed to have surgery, I should be able to own all my healthcare records. When they ask you, did you get the chickenpox shot? I do not do not know. I was three, you know, need to be able to own this data and have autonomy over our data. And also if other people are profiting on my data, I want to profit on it too. So those are ideas about Web three technology that really get me excited.
Lisa Friedman (29:54):
Yes, absolutely. Web three and blockchain technology has immense potential across different sectors of the economy. And as it relates specifically to the financial services. Today, we see a number of banks setting up teams internally and platforms to explore what opportunities blockchain technology can support. And today, as Lauren said, a number of cryptocurrency sort of assets are not really on the agenda in the US even for use of the customers who want to have those assets in the portfolios. However, we do see blockchain technology being used in banks for operational reasons. So back office settlement of transactions, just getting institutions comfortable with the technology. And then as we have more regulation and more clarity in that regulation, we believe that it is only going to continue and grow
Jackson Obama (31:00):
All great points. I think with regards to data ownership, I think younger generations certainly care about that a lot more than anybody else. I am not sure. I do not know if it actually matters in the long run. I think the promises of a blockchain solution where things are instantly verifiable, they are portable, regardless of which party is on the other side of that is super compelling. And I think there is a world where that is a mainstream product. I do not know what that looks like, but the promise of having verifiable and instantly accessible and portable credentials is really compelling. I think as for crypto, I think it seems that the speed at which we will see greater adoption will happen. It will be a lot faster outside of the us, at least for now. I think especially outside and just outside developed nations where the economy is not as developed and crypto makes a lot more sense. And I certainly think there are use cases for that. Again, sort of circumventing the traditional financial system, being able to sort of port in different data to justify accessing financial services or offering financial services. The promise of that is, again, quite compelling. There are regulatory barriers, which I think hinder the speed at which that will be adopted in the US at least for now. Yeah.
Jason Holly (32:27):
Excellent. Well, I think it is time for us to open it up for a few questions. Hopefully we have been able to generate some substantive ideas and some questions here.
Audience Member 1 (32:43):
So the idea of having your information portable accessible and you go out of the country and you are able to have this surgery. The flip side of that is someone gets ahold of that information and now they are having a surgery with your information, your insurance company, your bank account, all those things. Is there talk about securing that information as well or just stuck in the we need it, we need it type of thought process?
Jackson Obama (33:15):
I mean, I would think so. Yes. Yes. Blockchain or not, that is probably a good idea. I think everybody wished it worked that way. I do not think a blockchain or a web three based solution eliminates the possibility of that happening. And I think what you are getting at is that the perfect solution requires mass coordination, which is really difficult. Blockchain or not. Yeah,
Lauren Tierney (33:43):
I do. I will say that there is a lot of tools like a hardware wallet, like a ledger that focus on having the highest security. If you are not familiar with Ledger, I recommend looking it up. They are really leading the charge in this aspect. But I think I feel like I have more control and safety over my data that is in a ledger and is on blockchain versus the username and password that I probably use way too much.
Lisa Friedman (34:10):
And the whole idea of cryptographic proofs and the user enabling a particular doctor or recipient of that information to see it is specific to blockchain. Obviously it is. we are talking about identity, personal identity, not just health data, but social security numbers, financial identity and things like that. So there is obviously an understanding that it is super sensitive, and so there needs to be systems in place that protect it. And so there are different approaches about it. In our case, we do not put any privately identifiable information into the identity solution. We just put verifications or outcomes of those verifications on chain. But there are other ways with cryptographic proofs to deal with that as well.
Jackson Obama (35:01):
And I think if you start from a standpoint of high security and you make things more programmatic, maybe that solves the problem versus starting from a point where, hey, this is your data. Theoretically it is safe, you are keeping it safe, but now all of a sudden you have to do things with it and maybe interacting with parties that aren't safe and it is more, I guess, liable to be shared or leaked or lost when it is not as programmatic as ideally it would be in something like a blockchain based solution.
Jason Holly (35:34):
I would have to imagine that linking your data to a marker would also like an iris scan or fingerprints. Things of this nature would be another step against the risk of your data is being stolen or your identity being co-opted by somebody. But I guess that the chance never gets to zero, but it can get pretty close to it if you are using these additional measures.
Lisa Friedman (36:02):
It really depends on which environment you are using that data in. A lot of verifications, cryptographic verifications happen as part of the transactions autonomously, so then there is not really necessarily another opportunity to scan you high. But if it is in healthcare applications, it is maybe a different situation.
Jackson Obama (36:29):
Yeah, an interesting concept to think about is, I mean at least a classic sort of saying in financial services that I have heard over and over is the optimal amount of fraud is not zero in part because creating the user experience to optimizing for zero fraud is pretty painful. And maybe things like cryptographic proofs and things like blockchain technology can actually make it such that we can have zero fraud or at least get near zero more so than the traditional fin services. Right, ecosystem.
Jason Holly (37:06):
Excellent. I guess we have about two minutes left if anyone else has a burning question here about the blockchain or anything else. Gen Z.
Jackson Obama (37:21):
All right. One more.
Audience Member 2 (37:26):
Yeah, great topic. Thank you all so much for being here. Wanted to touch on something that Jackson had mentioned around KYC and KYB kind of struck me that with the comfort level that Gen Z has around the digital wallet basically being equivalent to a physical wallet in some ways even more secure. I think what maybe prior generations have relied on is there is information that just does not exist in the digital wallet. For instance, my mother's maiden name, the first car that I bought, my favorite teacher from elementary school, later generations, that information's digitized. The whole roster of my kids names, their teacher's names. I can go and find that online. Or do you see any concerns popping up around people realizing that their digital life within a digital wallet, it is actually kind of inextricable, it reduces a security service.
Jackson Obama (38:25):
So the question was if more data is in a digital wallet.
Lauren Tierney (38:31):
There, there is no way to get rid of the record of your data.
Jackson Obama (38:35):
Got it.
Lauren Tierney (38:36):
I heard the SVP.
Jackson Obama (38:37):
There will be services for that. If you pay enough, then you will get rid of it. I dunno.
Lauren Tierney (38:41):
I also think it is like I heard the SVP of unstoppable domains say, my mom used to tell me, be careful what you put on Facebook. And now it is like, be careful what you put on chain. There is always going to be that risk, I think. And to your point, there is going to be ways there is going to to change it. And a big thing I believe in of blockchain is not everything being on chain verified credentials are things that you own in your wallet and you decide who you share them with. So I think I see a future where you own these credentials about your identity that can help you get access to things, get better experiences, but you do not have to share them with everyone. You choose what you put on the chain and who you share what with. And that is the future that excites me of verified credentials on chain.
Jackson Obama (39:23):
The last point for me, theoretically as you have more things on chain per se, the amount of verification that needs to happen decreases with every incremental transaction or so maybe you start with just enough and then from there, as long as you do not mess up, it gets to near zero verification needed, hey, it is just this address, boom, you are good.
Lisa Friedman (39:45):
And the point that you raise is absolutely valid. So what we think about as a solutions provider when we think about identity is making sure that whatever we put in the passport, Quadra passport is not leading to re-identification. As I said, we do not put personal data, so your name into your passport, but there will be an attestation whether or not you represent a high risk from the KYC ML perspective. And so the idea is that other participants do not need to know your name. All they need to know is what kind of risk the user of this wallet possesses. And so that is meant to protect your sensitive data as well.
Jason Holly (40:30):
Excellent. And I will say what is interesting, I think that when you look at the Gen Z perspective, they have a proclivity to put things on chain. It may not be as much of a question for them in terms of these risks and being able to take something off once it is on there. It may just be sort of the habit to put everything on.
Lisa Friedman (40:47):
One trend that we did not actually touch on today in relation to Gen Z is how much information they disclose about their transactions, who they paid, what they bought, and what opportunities that actually can present from the packaging of solutions and products. But at the same time, it does have risk associated with re-identification.
Jackson Obama (41:11):
And maybe they just do not, do not care. The rest of my entire life is on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Anyway, what is it? I do not necessarily care. People see who I paid for Cubs tickets or whatever. they are much worse, more incriminating digital records on Facebook than there are Venmo.
Jason Holly (41:28):
With that, I think we will wrap it, but thank you all so much for coming. It was great to engage in the discussion.
Lisa Friedman (41:35):
Thank you.