Track 6: Next generation rewards & loyalty

There has been an enormous shift in the way consumers use their cards, both online and in-store. Credit card rewards and loyalty programs are also shifting.  From cash back to points to revolving bonus categories, the card rewards ecosystem has become very complex. 

Are fewer consumers interested in playing the card rewards game?  If so, why? In today's mature loyalty market, there is high demand for simplicity, transparency and choice in where and how consumers redeem their rewards.   We will explore these.

Takeaways:

1. Personalized / Relevant offers built into card benefits

2. Using points - immediate customer notification and gratification at point of purchase

3. Real-time reward redemption experiences (can points be used as cash?)

4. What next gen card enhancements best drive card use and increase loyalty?

Transcript:

Stephanie (00:09):

Right everybody. Thank you for coming back after your break. So this is the merchant and retailers track just to make sure everybody is in the right room. We did rearrange some of the rooms, so this is the merchant and retailer's track. We are going to be discussing next generation reward and loyalty. So I would like to introduce the moderator, Betsy Baron from SMC Marketing.

Betsy Baron (00:33):

Great, thank you Stephanie. Well, we have a great panel today. Thank you for joining us. We have a lot of valuable and really helpful information to share with you today. We know that there are so many of us think of rewards in terms not only of business, but also in terms of our personal rewards. We know that people are driven to use their cards depending upon what kind of rewards they are getting and how they are stacking up on their points and such and how are they using those points. We are going to address all of that in much more today. As Stephanie mentioned, my name is Betsy Baron. I am president and founder of SMC Marketing. Started my company over 25 years ago to help banks, credit card companies and FIS establish customer loyalty, customer retention, engagement. We have worked with American Express City cards, discover Cards and Wells Fargo cards and developing acquisition retention, spending programs, reactivation programs, etcetera. And it is my pleasure now to introduce the panel and I will start what is best to my right and we will introduce Geeta and Mike Knoop thank you.

Bess Healy (01:47):

Thank you Betsy. Hi there, I am Bess Healy and I have been the CIO of Synchrony for the last couple of years. For me, that is a return to technology, which is where I have spent most of my career. Obviously just foundational for enabling rewards and loyalty capabilities overall. I have also had a lot of experience on in other cross-functional areas in particular as a general manager of one of our largest portfolios and also driving strategy and transformation in the operations space. Synchrony's been around for quite a while, but iPod back in 2014. So We have had the opportunity to really chart our own course, make a substantial technology investments and really focus on driving customer experience. And we think about that in context of the customer journey. So when we think about driving customer journey and rewards and loyalty, it really is in the context of that customer experience and leveraging technology to enable those capabilities.

Geeta Chandan (02:46):

Great, thank you Bess. Good afternoon. I am Geeta Chandan, I lead the cart product and rewards team at Discover. Been with the organization about 16 years now in different areas of the marketing business from new card acquisition, portfolio marketing, business development, and digital marketing. Currently, as I mentioned, I lead the rewards and loyalty space, which is an awesome place to be because we get to reward our customers for shopping with their card. I discover Pride ourselves on our cashback bonus program, which is an industrial leading rewards, rewards equity. So we spend a lot of time on really perfecting the experience and the ways customers earn and use their rewards at Discover. Thank you.

Mike Knoop (03:33):

And hello everyone. My name is Mike Knoop. I am the CEO of Amplify. We are and I have been for over 10 plus years now. We run end in loyalty and rewards programs for banks and credit unions. Today our platform can be located in about 21, 2200 banks and credit unions, domestic based. You may not have ever heard of Amplify. If you are not a client of ours, that is intentional. Our philosophy is how do we develop end-to-end solutions to integrate through online banking, mobile banking, private labeled for your bank or your credit union so that it tightens the affinity between the issuer and the card holder. So again, the purpose is to bury amplifies name deep into the terms and conditions, heighten your brand and make your card product stand different from the competitors that may be in your footprint and try to drive engagement and spend on those cards.

(04:26)

And beyond that is kind of what customer behaviors do you want those individuals to also do beyond just card spend. What we find is our platform will allow you to engage in reward for different behaviors beyond just cards. So taking out loans, HELOC making payments, all those things that you want consumers to behave within your branches and community. Our platform does that for issuers today. We have continued to see a growth in popularity in these cards and the fact that the data just showed that there is about on average seven credit cards in an American's purses or wallet. So getting your program to stand out from competition is really hard and that is what we do to try to help you kind of bring that card top of wallet, enhance the experience and the engagement of that card holder within with brand.

Betsy Baron (05:20):

Wonderful. Well, following up on that concept of how customers are rewarded and what kind of rewards are available, and I think of gida and what she talked about with the cash back and how We have kind of gone from cash back being the most relevant thing that Discover was doing when loyalty rewards were first introduced. And now kind of pivoting back to the cash back and how important that is, let us talk a little bit about how loyalty has changed over the last 20 years. We talked about how, I mean we are still, obviously earning points and points are still important, but how many things have really changed from those days when all you did was accumulate points and okay, now I am going to go to my banker credit card website and I am going to redeem those points for whatever is in their library of selections of gifts that I can buy or travel or what have you. So how have the reward interest changed? How has that process changed? How is the concept of card loyalty and particularly with regards to the accumulation of points different now?

Geeta Chandan (06:35):

Yeah, sure. So thank you Betsy for setting that up. Like you mentioned, a lot has changed in the industry, but at the same time I would say cash has definitely, at least for Discover it remains the king. I would say that we have seen the continued relevance and flexibility around cash in terms of trends, I would say control and flexibility for a customer has really, it is always been there, but it is on, it is just become even stronger since We have come out of the pandemic. I think customers want flexibility for how they use and earn their points. They do not want to be limited to one form of currency and we have seen that cash is actually the most easy to translate. It is simplest at the end of the day, a dollar is always a dollar and you can decide to redeem that towards your bill. You can decide to use that as currency at point of checkout as well as in other ways that might suit your lifestyle. So the trends that We have really, what we have seen change is become control and flexibility become a lot stronger. And then I am sure as the other panels have discussed today, I would say speed and convenience of rewards have also just, it is a different expectation now and I am sure that Bess and Michael went weigh in on that as well.

Bess Healy (07:57):

Yeah, I really want to call out the speed aspects of the back end of what we are using today compared to back in the days when you had that catalog, the batch processes, the periodic, we will call it mailing of a rewards voucher or certificate, etcetera, garner those days for the most part. I think the technology enablement there as well as our ability to harness data to drive those personalized experiences are also, or those are the two big changes that I would highlight as the key differentiators today.

Mike Knoop (08:30):

Yeah, no, I agree with both of you. And I think that what we are seeing and what the industry is seeing and what consumers are demanding of us is the ability to allow them access to their points in a real time way and to be able to use their points in a cash-like type way. Geeta is absolutely right, cash is going to continue to be popular, but how do you engage that card holder and drive more relevance and the ability to communicate with them in the transaction flow, allowing them access to their points in places they are spending versus just a simple statement credit. And so what amplify what we have done is we have actually accelerated the transaction and allowing us to now sit in the off stream. And so what we do is we have a pay with points and in a real-time reward suite where we communicate to the card holder in the transaction, allowing them to say, thanking them for using your card, but also giving them the ability to use the points post transaction to pay for the transaction just completed.

(09:27)

So where we may not have an integration into the POS system immediately post, we can send an SMS message, thanks for using your ABC bank card, and by the way, would you like to use your points to redeem it is cash back. But it is in the fact that tomorrow when that transaction settles, it is going to say Target $40 and right below it is going to say paid with points with the negative $40. I know that there is a correlation and a causation that occurs when individuals redeem, they spend more on your card. For our clients it is about two and a half times. So the act of redeeming drives more spend and more engagement with your card holders. How do we give them the ability to gain access to those points more quickly using them in places that they are spending versus what be said is pulling them to a website to redeem for stuff. We still have to have that available, but how do we accelerate the connection, accelerate the engagement, and accelerating the accessibility of those points in a cash-like way?

Betsy Baron (10:27):

Well, and you talk about the trans transaction point, Mike, and one of the things that it makes me think of is the transaction point is so important in terms of the pay with points. We are all kind of thinking now of pay with points, which we hadn't been able to do many years ago, but now there is different things that we can redeem our points for. I mean, as you mentioned, that catalog is no longer there. There is other options with regards to getting cash back, how you are able to transition your points into using them for payments actually at the same institution. What about some of the other rewards? I mean I think about charitable rewards, that seems to be a new area where you are actually being able to take your points and use them to make a donation. Does anyone want to address that area?

Geeta Chandan (11:26):

Go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. We definitely discover has the option where you can redeem your points towards charitable organizations. We have also looked into, I know we will probably talk about sustainability as well as making sure that you are donating to causes that you care about. So, but these, I would say go both ways where you want to understand how you are spending, for example, on the sustainability side, you know, want to understand the spend side of things, but then also how can you redeem your rewards to offset that. I think that is definitely a trend and we have seen I would say some success with it, but it is important for customers to know that they have those options and it is important for us to create that marketing and that support because I would say sometimes even as organizations, we launch all of these options, but customers might not even realize they are out there.

Betsy Baron (12:20):

And how does Z fit into that picture? How does that change things in terms of how they are using their rewards?

Mike Knoop (12:28):

It makes it a lot simpler. I am kidding. No, I think with everything it be, it is becoming more complicated. The philosophy is you have those individuals that are carrying one of your cards that are aspirational, going to spin on your card all year long to take their family on a trip. And we have got to make sure we do not alienate those individuals because those are high spenders for a one-time redemption type of event. Then you have those that are transactional, those are the ones that want access to their points quickly. They want to use them either for cashback or in a cash-like type way. And then in the middle or somewhere in that portfolio there are those Gen Z or younger generation or it does not matter the generation you are in that would rather give it away than earn it than get it themselves. So that act of giving sometimes drives a connection to your bank with either a 5 0 1, I am a part of my family's, or maybe you are supporting locally. If I can give to that as a card holder and redeem my points via donation to Betsy's point, that connects me to you in a different way. So all of these have to be considered in your program because consumers are very fickle and they are changing often. And so how do you make sure that you continue to embrace the whole portfolio, recognizing that there is not a one size fits all type solution?

Bess Healy (13:54):

Yeah, I do think that the digital enablement and the hyper-personalization aspects of that are key, but you can not be everything to everyone either. So there is always that balance, but the real nature of the change in that cycle time that ESG centricity oftentimes of Gen Zers for example, is, and I think you mentioned the local aspects wanting to give to that local charity or event or family oriented options, etcetera. I do think as time goes by and we are better at leveraging the data in the moment that matters and with the digital enablement there in terms of the opportunities for them to use those points, to use those rewards, it does actually build loyalty. You do see higher spend, which is after all what oftentimes our partners are looking to drive. And so bringing them, it is not about activation so much as it is they feel part of a broader ecosystem and their ability to use those rewards.

Mike Knoop (14:56):

That is right.

Betsy Baron (14:58):

We talk about activation, we talk about ongoing usage. What about reactivating? What about those customers that have not been using their card that you really want to reactivate them and bring them back to life? How are rewards being used even in terms of incentives to be able to do that?

Geeta Chandan (15:24):

I would say of course rewards would be extremely important as a man strategy to mitigate attrition. I think what we try and do is idealy try and get them before a customer actually totally stops their card. So we try, again this best mention this around being in the right channel, right time offer, all that goes a long way. I mean, again, not new, but I think there is a lot of opportunity there for how we actually perfect that. I do not think as it needs to be, but we are doing a lot more in the space of just trigger marketing, behavior marketing, looking at when critical spend maybe shifts away, the recurring bills sort of shift away and then how can you time the right reward offers to get them reengaged? And sometimes it is not about the rewards, sometimes it is about the price and what else is going on with that customer. So I think it has to be that holistic strategy.

Mike Knoop (16:21):

Yeah, I mean agree with that. And I think that as best mentioned, it is about relevancy and at Amplify, we are lucky enough to have, we have a partnership with Visa, and Visa has a product called VRP Visa Rewards platform that we are the exclusive backend for that platform. So if you are a visa issuer and they are talking to you about VRP, that is really a white labeled version of Amplify. But the reason Visa did the deal with us is because Visa knows what you spend on your card, your loyalty provider knows why you are spending on that card. They know you are earn, you are spending to earn something and what you are going to do with it. So using that data to be able to engage a card holder that may be leaving you or shifting card to a spend, to a competing card coming out with an offer that is going to bring them back is very important. it is very timely as well, but that is important to know why they are spending on the card. And if you see spend shifting in a different direction, how do we reengage that consumer to pull back in again, easy to say, hard to do, but that is what we try to do every day.

Betsy Baron (17:26):

Well and think best with you, you are working on two levels. You are working with your retailers and your business to business and then working on a business to customer strategy as well because you want to make sure that the rewards that you have are also going to be meaningful, the end customer to the B2C part of that equation. How do you manage that? How do you strategize for that?

Bess Healy (17:59):

I would say the landscapes of all the good bit around that, you are correct. Synchrony is a B2C company primarily. And because of that we have been able to get a perspective across such a broad set of industries, whether it is auto or power sports or vet and pet or healthcare to home or to retailers. So you just get a broad perspective of the customer and what we are finding in our journey in terms of trying to drive the sales for our partners in that B2B relationship, we know oftentimes more about the customer, their customer than they do. And so it is just a unique synergy in how you drive activation of that customer base and the engagement, how you understand the customer life cycle. You heard me mention that the customer journey earlier, the importance of different segments and how they engage across those industries.

(19:00)

It just really is a very synergistic relationship and a lot of times we do not like that word, but they are very complimentary in the insights that we are able to bring because of those capabilities and because of those decades of perspectives that we are able to rely on. You can see the evolution very quick, speed, evolution obviously in terms of customer expectations, but it is, it is a very unique place and our clients actually find value now in what We are seeing across industries outside of just what they see with their customer. And when you can bring those insights to the table, it is very valuable.

Mike Knoop (19:38):

Well said. No, I mean she is spot on in the fact that, I mean the ways that again, that you can engage holders and let them use your points at different places. We are now integrating into retail as well. We have got a few national retailers where we are integrated into terminal allowing card holders to use their points in the transaction flow to literally take dollars off the transaction at Walmart and other places. Those dollars are low in the fact that it is only five or $10 via redemption regardless of what you spend. Because again, what we are trying to do is we are trying to engage that card holder in the transaction flow to learn a little bit more about them and then determine how do we engage them to drive more spend. So there is an engagement piece to it around retail that we are all trying to incorporate into our solutions as well.

Geeta Chandan (20:25):

And if I can add to that, even as an issuer, direct to consumer, we have actually had a lot of success with partnering with retailers and other brands we have seen. Of course customers, again, they do not want to keep switching their payment method depending on where they are. Once you have that top of wallet position, we really try and try hard to stay there. And we have seen a lot of success with partnerships like you just mentioned, with Amazon, with PayPal at and other retailers because of our network to really get that position in the pay at point of sale. I think we still have to figure out the in-store piece of it, which is I think the industry is still working on that and making that more seamless. But as a customer, if you can use your preferred choice at the place you are already shopping and get that added value, I think to them that is really powerful.

Bess Healy (21:21):

Can I just add one please? Just one other thing I think is really important too, and this is the technologist in me coming out here for a second. I think how we build our products and capabilities really matters. Having the modular capabilities that allow your partners to own as much or as little of the customer experiences, they are able to or they prefer to, is it really important? And when you are building out and technology enablement of those products and capabilities, if you build them in such a way that the partner can completely own that customer experience either in store or digitally or you can deliver those capabilities as well, I think it gives you the level of flexibility and you can really traverse the spectrum to meet the partner where they are at, which actually enables you to meet the customer where they are at.

Betsy Baron (22:10):

That is great. Great. And as we talk about the different technologies and we are talking about the card experience and we are thinking of the actual Tenable card, we are also talking about the existence of the digital wallets. How are digital wallets affecting the spend and the reward and the accumulation of points and the whole process

Bess Healy (22:39):

For us, for last year, we saw a 70% increase in digital wallet provisioning and that drove an 85% increase in digital sales.

Betsy Baron (22:50):

That is pretty good.

Geeta Chandan (22:51):

Yeah, I feel like we discussed earlier, once you are top of wallet in that Apple Pay, Samsung Pay or even other retailers wallets, it becomes, it is hard for another issuer to sort of take that position, but once they change it, there is not a lot of switching happening. So again, I think it is really critical to be top a wallet and make that as seamless as possible. And that is where of course we are seeing a lot of spend grow. For the first time last year we actually provided, as part of a cashback program calendar, we added wallets in our 5% calendar. And it is interesting because I would actually seen something that we done maybe 12 or 15 years ago where we were doing 5% on online spend and we were like, oh my God, can not believe we gave 5% on all online shopping. So I am sure just a few years from now we will be like, oh my god, how did we even afford that? Because in a few years we will not be able to do that. Yeah,

Mike Knoop (23:51):

And I think the hard thing is the how do we get a card to provision in the digital wallet? You would love for everyone to have it in there, but it is hard to get some people to do it. Some people are early adopters and they are doing it, but as best says, it is becoming more relevant and it is becoming more accessible and more people are doing it. But for the ones that are not, how well, as an example, if we can get the card giving them points for things like Uber, because we know an Uber Pay transaction typically is from a card that is in the digital wallet, doing things like giving double bonus points, five times points for Amazon transactions, for Apple pay transactions, for subscription services, those things that are typically default payments from the digital wallet, that is how you incent that card holder to move that card to the top of wallet positioning from a digital wallet perspective. And those are some that your loyalty provider can do for you as well, that will help you kind of drive that behavior of that card holder that is not there.

Betsy Baron (24:51):

And that leads me to the concept of so social apps and how you are using social, you are socializing your reward program. How you keeping the engagement factor important to the card holder? Talk a little bit about that, how you are socializing it.

Bess Healy (25:12):

Yeah, I mean the expectations it is been particular for millennials engines of years to have it integrated in the experience is I think definitely it is just a fundamental expectation at this stage. Whether they are scrolling through their Insta or pick your social solution of choice, it is key. And I do think there are definite opportunities for stronger integration over time, but we definitely see that demand. We have seen tremendous shift. Obviously I think everyone has coming through the pandemic and customer expectations and that is definitely a fundamental expectation at this stage.

Geeta Chandan (25:51):

I think for us, we are really trying to play up the element of, again, control. So creating that connection with the customer, whether they decide to use their rewards for making a payment that month because they need the little extra help, but that provides the surprise and delight to them. Or like you said, an aspirational purchase, something trip they have been looking forward to. But trying to connect that to the social aspect. So I think it is a connection that we are trying to become really authentic about it and make that connection by basically saying that you can use your rewards as you like, but it is important to you at that moment in time. And that is where we try and create that connection.

Betsy Baron (26:35):

And are those messaging ongoing? Are they responsive to some kind of card usage? How do you determine those messaging?

Geeta Chandan (26:47):

So it is interesting because every week I get asked what is for example, and what is the rewards redemption worth? And it is really, really hard to put a value to that, even as a customer lifetime value. It is really hard to put that. But over time we do see that long-term engagement, that increase in sales, increase in spend, there is no denying it. And it is table stakes at this point to have that and make those experiences even more seamless. Like I said, in terms of the messaging, we are trying to do a lot more behavior trick based messaging journeys, trying to be present with a customer's present and doing those partner messages. And We have seen a lot of success there. Yeah,

Mike Knoop (27:29):

I think that is right. I think it is also around relevance, you know, can communicate to me frequently, as long as it is relevant, as soon as it is not relevant, it becomes kind of junk and it is, yeah, so you know, could offer me an offer and for me to serve up some level of personal information. And I am probably not going to take it because I protect my information that way. I am not proud to admit it, but you can offer my 21 year old daughter a $10 kind of discount to Starbucks and she would probably give you her social. So it is, so it is finding that relevance of what is it going to take for them to give you or trying to change behavior to engage with them to give them something at value. And knowing that consumer is determining how much value are you going to have to give to get the engagement you want. And that is a give and take that really gets down to personal relevance.

Betsy Baron (28:21):

Yeah. Well I knew we would have an awesome panel today and I do want to leave some time for questions from the audience if you have any. Yes. I am wondering if you wait a minute, she is going to come to the with a mic and everyone will hear it. Thank you.

Mike Knoop (28:42):

The next one is in the back corner. I am just kidding.

Audience Member 1 (28:45):

Thanks everyone. So my question is about, you all talked about how it is important to offer strong targeted rewards to consumers to acquire that card holder, and then later in the journey you want to keep them engaged by offering rewards and then if they were to kind of pull back, offer more rewards. So I guess I am wondering if you have any concerns around perpetual escalation of offering these rewards and if there is any sort of ceiling there.

Mike Knoop (29:15):

So I mean there is a concern around expense versus what you are going to get in return in interchange and interest income. I think you control it with your cost per point so you can kind of lower the value to the consumer, giving them something of convenience if you would. So when I talked about our integration into retail, it is not really a good value for the consumer, but because you are giving them the ability to use their points in the transaction flow, they are willing to take less value, which burns more points off of your books as a liability. it is kind of the cheapest way for redemption to occur. And we see that drive the highest level of spend from a repeating perspective. So managing your CPP is a great way to allow consumers access to their points, but if you find a way that is done that is convenient and immediate, they will actually take less value based on what you are providing them in the benefit if you would. Yeah,

Geeta Chandan (30:07):

And if I can add to that being on the issuing side, it is a numbers game, especially on the new account acquisition space and cash where you sort of want to have the highest number. But I would say there is other ways to differentiate, especially in the cash space where again, as a dollar as dollar you can't really depreciate that value. And on the redemption side, we actually try to be extremely friendly and open to our customers. We do not have any minimums and your rewards never expire. So where we try and compete is really through that excellent experience and seamless ways to earn and redeem even if a competing bank might have a higher rewards percentage, we want to make sure once we acquire you and especially while managing the portfolio, we stay true to that.

Betsy Baron (30:57):

Any other questions? Oh, thank you.

Audience Member 2 (31:08):

Hi. One question I had was just, we did not get into this specifically, but we know Gen Z, excuse me, is debit first. What are some strategies to engage that generation from debit into the credit side and do you see their right, we talked about cashback as being as the number one reward for across all the generations. Do you see cashback changing and what do those rewards look like for that generation specifically?

Mike Knoop (31:35):

Yeah, so I think it is the one for debit. Finding a way to integrate a cardlink offer, a merchant funded offering to enhance the value prop that you get as from a debit spend is one way of doing it. There is a lot of platforms out there that you can integrate that gives additional bonus points for on the credit and the debit side, but very valuable on the debit side. This is one where you can actually do the sustainability, where you can actually come up with a strategy that allows them to take what they have earned and donate it or use it in other ways that they can see value in it without getting that same value from a cost perspective for it. We have had clients that integrated into an auction or a sweepstake, so there is a lot of ways that you can gamify the points that have been earned so that you are not burning a one for one off your liability, but you are still getting the same level of engagement and spend that you would like.

Betsy Baron (32:33):

Yeah. Anything else? I do have one last question cause you hit it a little bit on it with regards to liability, the issue of fraud and fraud with points is a huge issue. We are all preparing our to cover those costs. How do you address that? How do you address the customer experience when there is fraud on their rewards points?

Bess Healy (33:05):

Well, I think in terms of the customer aspect, you have to recognize upfront that it is a highly sensitive moment in the customer journey, probably among the most sensitive moments. Leveraging the data and tool sets and AI in order to capture that I think is really the key. You've got to have very sophisticated, and look, there is no finish line, but the sophistication around the criminals is got to be matched by the sophistication in our capabilities and the way we harness the data to protect the customer.

Geeta Chandan (33:38):

I would say that the first off, to your point best, it is such a critical moment, especially for a customer who is been saving up those rewards and then you see think they are gone. So creating that comfort that regardless they are covered, we have got them. I think that is number one. But then second, really at least we have seen when stuff like that happens, it is usually an account take care situation or there is some other elements of fraud going on with that account. it is not just limited to redemption side. So really working with the customer to figure out the root cause and how can they get past it. I think we spend a lot of time again on the experience side there and really figuring out why that is happening for that customer. Good.

Mike Knoop (34:21):

Yeah, I mean I think all that is right. I think that what we do as an extension of our issuers, we actually work as an extension of the fraud as well in the fact that in many cases we will see transaction or redemption and kind of activity occurring in a way that looks odd and in many cases we can inform the issuer that something may be occurring and you may have an account that is been compromised. So there is fraud, kind of mitigation kind of activities that kind of, or monitoring systems are set on our side to help make sure that that card holder is who they actually are and that spend is occurring the way it is supposed to be spending and redemption is occurring the way it is supposed to be happening. I mean, if we see a one time airfare redemption with a different name on the ticket than the account that is traveling international is probably odd. So we are going to inform the issuer of that activity and see if we can get that account shut down from a spin perspective and also from a redemption perspective. So there are attributes that occur on the redemption side that can inform on the banking side as well.

Betsy Baron (35:27):

Thanks. Well, I want to thank everyone for their attendance today and their interest in this topic because it is very important and I want to thank the panelists today, Beth and Geeta and Mike and I want to thank the American banker for this opportunity as well as Stephanie for her help today and her help in preparing the panel for our presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you all.