Turning Career Aspiration Into Rapid Leadership Advancement

Mentorship, coaching and sponsorship are the biggest drivers of developing business management and leadership skills—and finding new opportunities to advance in one's career. Our honorees talk about the people who made a difference in their careers, and how to lead the next generation.

Among the things you'll learn:

How the path to finding mentors, coaches and sponsors—internally and across professional networks—is expanding as the payment industry evolves, and how to engage with and advocate for younger professionals coming up the ranks


Transcription:

Chana Schoenberger (00:00:09):

So I am going to welcome up the panelists for our first session here. And this one is going to be about, there's a title for it. What are we calling this? Turning Career Aspiration into Rapid Leadership Advancement. So how quickly can you get where you want to go and the two most powerful women, most influential women in payments honorees on this panel are Sara Walsh. She was a Managing Director and The Head of Vendor, Third Party and Network Relationship Management at Bank of America and Yaminah Sattarian, who's a Senior Vice President and Group Leader at KeyBank. Please come up. Okay. And we are going to take audience questions at the end, so start thinking about what you want to ask this to inspirational executives. Alright. So just to kick us off, give us a quick highlight reel of how you got where you are right now career wise. Yaminah, why don't you go first?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:01:07):

Oh, well if we want to talk about the today spot, I'd like to think that it went through a lot of the mentoring that I've had over the years. So to get to where I am today, we can backtrack. I mean I've been in the payments business for 24 years now, but I did start pretty low. I started in a banking training program, so I went through a management leadership program and throughout that process I've had different mentors across the board that really helped me and shepherded me around my career. And I would say from that perspective, I did take a leap of faith away from general domestic payments and went into international payments for several years and I did go across numerous financial institutions. So I spent time at National City, which then got acquired by PNC and then I went to the Royal Bank of Scotland and then I arrived at Key. And then with Key I spent time in our international group. And then from there I went back into the domestic payments world. But a lot of that was not done on my own. I spent time with different mentors and leaders across the board and then of course took the time through education and learning.

Chana Schoenberger (00:02:14):

Okay, great.

(00:02:14):

Alright, how about you Sara?

Sara Walsh (00:02:16):

Thank you. So I am really a classic example of the saying when hard work meets luck, then opportunities are created. I started at MBNA, which is a credit card company that was acquired by Bank of America.

Chana Schoenberger (00:02:33):

It has a very big diaspora. Anyone else here from NBNA? No,

Sara Walsh (00:02:37):

I met somebody in the hallway already. That is okay. So yes, legacy NBNA. And I was a junior in college. I was working in operations when I was not very good. I was an outward telemarketer and it was tough. That was a tough job for me. A lot of tears, but the hardest job I've had at the bank and I'm so glad I started there. So really moved after I graduated from college into operations and just loved it. What a great, great upbringing. As you're developing your career, we were working like the overnight shifts to get that 10% shift differential, if any of else you remember that. But those were great days, just hustling, working a ton of hours and really just got such a great foundation there. And then my husband actually had an opportunity, which caused us to move and he took advantage of an opportunity and I found myself needing a job. So went into and posted successfully internal to the company to a project management role. And that's really where I found my love for payments, business cases, working in the war rooms overnight, the technology requirements. I just fell in love with it. And I worked on a project which many of you probably know is Reg II or Durban Amendment for debit.

(00:03:56):

And that was really the jumpstart that I had and it's probably the biggest one to my career when I was then given a team and really any project that impacted a payment network was sent over my way. And from there we have just grown into this amazing organization of talented SMEs who manage our partnerships with the large vendors like Visa, MasterCard, Fiserv, TSIs for Bank of America. That's my story.

Chana Schoenberger (00:04:25):

So why payments? There's so many things you could do in a bank.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:04:32):

Honestly, I think the biggest piece that keeps me in payments is the consistent change, the enhancement of technology, having to combat fraud, having to figure out new ways to help corporates, just getting into businesses and then helping them enhance technology. I mean, we see a change every single day. So I think that when you're in a role in payments and you see that constant change, there is no boredom. I feel like there's, you constantly feel like you're doing something new and there's so much room for growth because of the change. And I think that's what keeps me in payments.

Sara Walsh (00:05:04):

Yeah, I agree. The constant change is amazing with payments. One day we're working on card issuing and then we're our own acquiring bank all of a sudden. So really within payments I've had 10 different careers I feel like all along because of that change, there's always new regulations, there's always new state laws that are popping up. So it definitely keeps us on our toes and I've just learned so much that I really do feel like even though I've been in my role since 2010 now I've had probably 16 different careers as things have transitioned.

Chana Schoenberger (00:05:38):

It always reminds me of parkour. Have you guys ever seen parkour done? It's like you basically run up walls, that's what a job in payments is. It's like, oh, a new regulation. Okay, we're going to run right up that and then do a back flip.

Sara Walsh (00:05:52):

That's right.

Chana Schoenberger (00:05:53):

Awesome. Okay, so a thing that we talk about a lot at American Banker across industries within banking is mentorship. So who mentored or sponsored you and how did you find those people?

Sara Walsh (00:06:08):

I'll start with this one. So it's funny, I was thinking about this panel and I realized I really, until very recently have never had a formal mentor. Now that we have all this responsibility, I have one. So I'm not sure what that's saying, but I'll take it as a compliment that they want to invest in me. But certainly there have been people over the years that I have tried seen as successful and try to emulate what they did. And for me to find those people, it was always people who got the results and had the what, but also had how that was effective too. So really looking for that combination of people. And I'm also, I'm very practical and not particularly touchy feely, so I really look for people who can give me really good, simple sound actionable advice, which I have been able to find. And then last but not least, there have definitely been times where I've had kind of what I call a micro mentor or someone who has stood up for me or stepped in for me when there's been an opportunity that I've been able to take advantage of. So that's definitely the case for me and people who have spoken for me when I wasn't in the room.

Chana Schoenberger (00:07:20):

Okay, but this is the first time in your career you have a formal assigned mentor?

Sara Walsh (00:07:24):

Yes, it is.

Chana Schoenberger (00:07:25):

Okay. Wow. Alright.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:07:29):

So I'm a firm believer in mentorship, but from my perspective, I've always considered it indirect mentorship. I don't have a formal mentor that I say I have written down and we have documenting settings, but my mentors have always been individuals that have been strong leaders that also advocated for me. And I think mentorship comes beyond just kind of helping you out through the process of your career, but also having outside advocates to help you move along. And I would say one of my biggest, what I would say mentors today is actually my direct boss. And today, the reason why is I've spent years with him before we used to actually work on a trade floor together, so we were just peers and friends. And then when he became my boss, I thought it was going to be strange, but instead he became my number one advocate and he's always worked with me and always been a strong person there. Now prior to that, I've had, and I was just talking about that earlier today with Laura Mora who helps a lot and really has represented me here with American Banker. And I would say the majority of my mentors and advocates have always consistently been men, but then Laura internally and externally has always been a number one advocate. So I've kind of brought a woman into the gang, but I think diversity is extremely important in that as well.

Chana Schoenberger (00:08:47):

That's great. Yeah, that was something I wanted to talk about because it seems like the more advanced you get in your career when you're a junior, everyone talks about mentorship as it's the level or two levels or three levels above you. You need to look up and say, what are these people doing? Emulate them, as you both said. But in terms of warming your network, you form the network with your peers. These are the people that you go out with after work as you eat your salads together in the break room or whatever, and then everybody moves up and then it frequently happens that you and a peer will switch places being each other's bosses or you will hire each other. We all have stories about this. And then you reach the point where the people that you were looking up to are retiring from the industry. So there'll be one or two people will be very senior executives and everyone else would pretty much be on a golf course or a boat somewhere. And then you look around and you say, who is my network? Well, it's the people who have been my peers all this time. What is the best way to sort of optimize that for you and for them?

Sara Walsh (00:09:55):

I'm going to go back to what I said earlier about associate yourself with the type of people who will speak up for you when you're not in the room and vice versa, be the type of person that speaks up for others who are not in the room with you. I think that's the best example of advocacy and how you can establish true relationships with some of your peers and how you interact with them. And you're right, really payments is a pretty small world, so it always try to leave an interaction with somebody positively, even if you're having difficult conversations, you never know when you're going to be interacting with that person again. So don't burn bridges, whatever you want to say. But I think that is so important to keep in mind with your peer group as well. Know that that absolutely could happen and you want to say, okay, if this person was my boss, what would I want them to think about me? What do I want them to know about me and understand.

Chana Schoenberger (00:10:52):

Right. Or the opposite, if I am this person's boss, am I going to hire this person? What do I need to know about them now that would enable me to hire them later?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:11:03):

You know what, I had have to agree with some of what you said, but at the same time too, I also want to make sure that don't avoid having someone younger or even much younger than you as a mentor because there's so much change in the world and some of these young college students, et cetera, they have a different perspective and you want to gain the perspective of everyone across the spectrum because when you think about it, when you're building your own team, you're dealing with so much diversity, so many gender, the gender change, the ages, everything out there. So you want to make sure that you're getting feedback from everybody else around you and all the different spectrums. So for me, I've built this network, and again, it's not documented mentors, but to me they are my mentors. It's just getting that feedback and hearing from others to help me support the teams that I'm building.

Chana Schoenberger (00:11:51):

Yeah, it's the idea of the kitchen cabinet, the people that you are comfortable asking questions to, like you call them and everyone has their friends, maybe their college buddies, you got a sibling who you ask these sorts of things, but it's good to have people at work as well who you can float things by and then it's okay if they tell you that you're wrong or I don't think we should do it that way. Let's not prioritize that. Challenging. Okay, what does everyone get wrong about mentoring? This is something that every big company is talking about now.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:12:31):

Listen, I think that one of the biggest pieces where people are terrified or scared of dealing with mentors is, or for someone to be a mentee is the time consumption. I don't want to spend all the time, I don't have time for this, I don't have the time to put into it, which is why I always tell people, Hey, I'm your indirect mentor, I will help you whenever you can reach me, you can text me, you can call me, don't worry about it. I'm going to make time for you. It doesn't have to be some documented dialogue or something that we have to input to in a system to make it so strict. Let's talk to each other and help each other. And then also I think that some folks feel like, oh, if you have a mentor, it is a wrong way to guide you through your career. And quite frankly, I think mentors come in all different forms and even people that think they don't have mentors, they do. They just don't know that it's a mentor.

Chana Schoenberger (00:13:17):

Right.

Sara Walsh (00:13:19):

I agree. And one thing that you said resonated with me is you can learn so much from people who tell you when you're wrong. And that is a very valuable lesson. And if I can just tell a quick story, we were working on a credit card conversion at the time, it was the biggest in the industry, of course, I'm sure it's not anymore, but at the time it was. And I had somebody give me, need me to basically say, Hey, we're lagging on this decision that really needs to be made. Can you make sure and get technology executives attention on this? And I wasn't thoughtful enough when I decided that. I was like, yes, of course I'll own this. I've got it. Yes, I will get the answer. So I made the very poor decision of sending an email to the technology executive and I went deep.

Chana Schoenberger (00:14:10):

Did you use the word just? Did they need it when you used the word just?

Sara Walsh (00:14:14):

I mean I went deep. All that executive did was send an email back with a question mark, never said anything else, just sent that one thing back. That was a question mark. And I still remember that to this day, and I have this clench in my stomach when I think about it because I know it was so silly and so wrong. So I think about that and I'm so much more thoughtful. It was a great lesson because now I don't like to email very much and I'd rather talk to people or hold a quick 15 minute meeting. So that was an important lesson. But it's so funny, even today when I see him, I'm like, oh. He's like, oh, hi Sara. It's still even, it's probably been over 10 years now since this happened. So I think that that's just an example of a casual interaction.

(00:15:01):

That really taught me. And yes, he mentored me in that moment and I did not forget that. So what should you have done? Oh, I could have done so many different things. I could have scheduled 10 minutes on the phone, picked up the phone. I would've not gone into that technical deep level that executives don't like. Nobody likes that. That is definitely what I would've done and I would've socialized it with people perhaps below this executive level to get their support so they could go to the executive and talk to them. So a lot of different things there.

Chana Schoenberger (00:15:37):

You think he holds it against you?

Sara Walsh (00:15:38):

No, he laughs though. When he sees me, he knows and he remembers too. I know he smiles there. I'm like, yes, hello.

Chana Schoenberger (00:15:47):

Yes, you live and you learn.

Sara Walsh (00:15:49):

That's right. You live and you learn.

Chana Schoenberger (00:15:52):

Do you have any good stories like that?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:15:55):

Not that I can bring up like that in the mentorship sector. That was deep. That was deep. I mean, I've got some great stories of when actually where I had what I would consider a mentor who is now our company CFO, that really did put me in a position where I would say he saved me where it's the opposite, where you have people that are not necessarily your advocate and not necessarily your mentor because they're afraid of losing their status of being the queen bee at the time. And it was a sad situation. I was actually in Chicago on business and the individual that's our current CFO was running our payments business time called me and he is like, Hey, are you ready for the meeting tomorrow morning at eight, which is in Cleveland? And I was like, what are you talking about?

(00:16:42):

He's like, I didn't think they told you, so that's why I'm calling to let you know that you need to be there tomorrow eight. And it was a meeting with who is now our CEO, who was at the time running our institutional bank. So I said, okay, well what is it that you need me to do and present? He shared the information and I said, okay, there's a 6:00 AM flight, I'll get on that flight and I'll be there. So that evening I did an all-nighter working to be prepared and I showed up and to me that strong mentorship because in his mind he felt like something must've been wrong, he just didn't understand in his gut feeling, he felt as if I didn't know. And still to this day, it's one of my favorite stories because now he's this CFO and it was a meeting with who is now our CEO, and it got me, it saved me. It helped me. And right after that is when he pulled me out of what we were doing our international business when I was on the trade floor and I moved into our institutional payment space, which I genuinely love.

Chana Schoenberger (00:17:40):

Wow, that's awesome. Okay.

Sara Walsh (00:17:41):

One thing I would mention when you ask about where mentoring goes wrong, and this is just very practical advice, but people don't do it, so I'm going to mention it now, is when you go to your mentor have some objectives for what you want out of the relationship, it's very hard as a mentor to help put people that when those goals are not established right off the bat, and please come with an agenda, also send it out ahead of time again so we can help and prepare and make sure that we're thinking ahead of what you might need as well. People don't do that enough. It surprises me still. I'm like, oh, no agenda. So I'm just going to mention that now in case.

Chana Schoenberger (00:18:24):

Yeah, no agenda means you're just going to talk about your kids.

Sara Walsh (00:18:26):

Exactly.

Chana Schoenberger (00:18:27):

That's catching up, but it's not mentorship. I think the reason why people don't do that is because they're afraid of looking too transactional. They forget that this is business and people appreciate directness and they don't want to have their time wasted. Also, they don't need another friend.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:18:47):

It's hard because a lot of times they're looking for you to tell them what they should be doing next. And it's like, well, what is it that you want? What is it that you want to achieve in your career, in your life, or whatever it is that you're asking us to help you with, give us some guidance for us to be able to guide you.

Chana Schoenberger (00:19:03):

Yeah. How do you approach mentorship when dealing with, when you're mentoring a younger generation that often wants to go faster than things have typically gone?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:19:16):

Well, I have one of my associates here today, and she can tell you right away that I'm always telling her, don't rush, right? Wait, I am looking at your best interest. And I always say that I'm looking for your best interest when I'm having these conversations with you and when you think you're ready, you think you're ready because you're in a rush to run into things, but you're not thinking it all the way through. I think it's a lot of times you might look at your peer group or you might look at other individuals and say to yourself, but why not me? And it's like, well, I'm looking at your best interest because maybe what's available now is almost like a step back. We've put you in a position where you have so much room for growth that we want to wait until we find the right perfect opportunity that makes sense for you and just slow down a bit.

(00:20:01):

And we've had another experience. I had another sales associate that used to work with us, and he actually wanted to move up in a role so bad that he was going to another financial institution. And we sat down, we talked to him, and at the end of the day, he ended up staying with us, but it was because he wanted to leave just because he wanted that title. And I'm like, you don't get it and you don't know what you're walking into. And it worked out to his benefit by staying because that financial institution didn't end up doing well and he probably would've been unemployed. But at the end of the day, it's like when we say it, or at least I feel like when I mentor someone, I genuinely mean it. When I say, I'm looking for your best interests, I gain nothing. Right? I'll never hold somebody back in their career if they find something new and they're excited, I want to help them through it.

Sara Walsh (00:20:46):

That is such a good answer. And the advice that I give people too is don't forget that you really need to be focused and good at your current job. Sometimes people get so wrapped around the axle, like you said, of, well, so-and-so's moving up. Why can't I move up? Or I want to be here. I need to be doing all these things to show when doing extra. Sometimes you don't need to do the extra. You need to be really good at what your primary responsibilities are. So that's just something that I've observed too.

Chana Schoenberger (00:21:15):

Yes, definitely. And you have to show that you've been doing the current job for long enough that you have the experience. Four months is probably not enough.

Sara Walsh (00:21:24):

No, right. Very true.

Chana Schoenberger (00:21:26):

Definitely.

(00:21:26):

You both touched on sponsorship, so that's this idea that someone is in a room where decisions are being made, you are not there, they're speaking for you. That's sort of the gold standard. Everybody wants to have a sponsor. They want want to know that they are being spoken about in a good way. I know I always try to do this when I'm in that room. I think about whose case can I advance here? And then I try to bring that person up or praise that person's work or come with a couple of examples about something that they've done recently. What is the best way to get yourself a sponsor?

Sara Walsh (00:22:03):

Strong performance. Again, I'll go back to that, be a strong performer and do something that other people don't like to do or don't want to do something hard. Figure out, okay, what is it at our company that's yucky? People just don't want to deal with that. It's hard and figure that out and get good at it, and you'll have more sponsors than you'll know what to do with. People value that type of scale. And if you're the only one really doing it, then even better off. You put yourself in a wonderful position, people won't help but want to sponsor you In that case.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:22:40):

I would say the same thing. And then also I think part of what I would say over the years that I spent time is I used to help a lot of people achieve or act as a sponsor for others, but I also keep it behind the doors. I never let anybody know that I was helping people navigate to get to where they wanted to be. And it wasn't until I started making it known that where I was helping others, did I gain numerous advocates within the organization and sponsors in the organization. I think there was the impression that I knew everything or I thought that I knew everything and I didn't want to help others or bring others along because I felt like I knew everything. But the reality is when I wasn't bringing other people along, it was because I was like, you know what?

(00:23:20):

I felt bad because I'm like, you know what? They need to spend their time with the folks that are new up and coming, so let me just do my thing and then I will bring them in when I genuinely need to bring them. And at the same time, I was helping others behind the scenes, getting things done and projects and helping them through growth, but nobody knew because I wasn't saying anything. And it genuinely wasn't until someone called me out and I was like, wait, what? I'm like, do you know what I do? So I think part of that is making sure that you're letting others know what you're doing to help growth within the organization or within people around you that makes a change. And you'll see real quick how many sponsors are behind your back.

Chana Schoenberger (00:23:56):

So you really have to be your own publicist, your own.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:23:58):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And then you'll gain more people advocating for you.

Chana Schoenberger (00:24:03):

It's a fine line to figuring out how to let people know what you're up to without,

Yaminah Sattarian (00:24:09):

Looking arrogant or bragging. Exactly.

Chana Schoenberger (00:24:11):

Right. And I hate to say it, but that's kind of gendered because no one would ever accuse a male executive bragging if he was talking about how great he was at work. Right?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:24:21):

They always great.

Chana Schoenberger (00:24:25):

Yes, definitely. Okay, just to sort of switch tracks a little bit. So work from home, this is over the last five years since the pandemic, this has become an increasing way that the American worker finds that they're doing their job. Many companies still offering a hybrid schedule. The last thing I saw, I think it's like 25% of people are working, no, I can't remember exactly what the statistic is. How is this good and bad for careers and what's the best way to approach this if your company offers it? Not always great. Right?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:25:04):

Go ahead. You want to go ahead?

Sara Walsh (00:25:05):

Either way. You go ahead.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:25:06):

Okay. Listen, I'm indifferent because I am a strong advocate of hybrid work. I'm also came from a group where pre covid, half my team was work from home, so I have a national team and they were work from home. And at the end of the day, the productivity was there. I mean, I've never had any issues with people showing up and getting the job done. I almost felt as if they worked harder because back then, especially back then, there wasn't a lot of companies that would allow for hybrid brick or work from home full-time work.

(00:25:41):

And I felt like I was getting more work done and accurately out of those teams because they didn't want to lose that benefit. And even still to this day, I would say majority of my team is either work time, work from home, full time or hybrid. And quite frankly, I mean I have a strong team. I trust 'em. I've never had issues where we can't get ahold of each other. And I think the flexibility helps. It really does because especially when there's young up and coming families, you have a really, really hard worker. And at the end of the day, if you have a young child that's ill and they're sitting on a couch and you're still plowing through work and then you're working extra hours later in the night to make up that time, that's fine from my perspective, because you have to be flexible.

(00:26:24):

And there's so many people that are so dedicated to their jobs that I don't have that concern. And if it does become a problem, then you do have those conversations and we have so much technology. I mean, you've got zoom meetings, you've got cameras, there's so much going on with the enhancement of technology. I think that hybrid work is something that should continue to move forward. Now when you go back to the fact of how does it impact folks that are trying to build relationships and stuff, those are the times where I actually do have conversations with people and say, listen, I try to be in the office at least two days a week when I'm not traveling. A lot of times I'm on the road, but I ask other folks, and especially the ones that are full-time work from home, I'm like, Hey, maybe you should come in. If you're looking for change and you're looking for something new, then try to come in. Even if it's once a week or once every two weeks come in, I can introduce you to different people within an organization, start becoming known because you're not going to be engaged in some of the meetings that we're in. But if you're in the office, you'll be known and you'll be seen around and I'll be able to introduce you. So it depends on the organization and how they're structured, but I think the flexibility that you provide is extremely important.

Sara Walsh (00:27:35):

Yes, agree. And it's getting a little tougher for sure. We did have a lot of flexibility, and there are some companies who are five days a week back in the office period, no choice. Then there are some who do still have the flexibility, which I agree. I think that is ideal. But no matter where you are with your company, obviously comply with all the policies.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:27:59):

Absolutely.

Sara Walsh (00:28:00):

But just be confident. If you have flexibility to work two days at home, then work two days at home

(00:28:07):

And don't be bashful about it. Just say, yes, I'm taking advantage of my flexibility that the company offers me. So that's the first thing that I would say. Of course, there will be times when you have to use common sense and make it into the office. If you have a meeting that's going on and there's people that you want to interact with during that meeting, then get in there. Maybe it's four days a week that you have to be in that week, but just again, just be confident in whatever it is. Now, the one thing that I will say that is different showing my age here, but when my kids were little, we didn't have that flexibility. We didn't have the ability to, like you said, when someone's sick, I remember there being a snow day where we live in Pennsylvania, we have snow days, and my husband and I would fight over whose turn it was to be home with the kids because you couldn't work. So I do worry a little bit. I'm not worried about their productivity. I agree with you. The people who are home and taking and working are killing it because they don't want to lose that flexibility. They're wonderful top performers. But I do worry about those working parents. It is tough to do both. It really is. So I do worry about a little burnt out that might happen in those cases, but however people want to manage it, then that's completely up to them. As long as your performance is there, then it shouldn't matter.

Chana Schoenberger (00:29:30):

Yeah, it is interesting though because as you see the companies in the industry, there are a number of them that have moved to five days a week. And I'm thinking of one in particular that was five days a week for MDs and above, and then went to five days a week for everyone. And I was surprised to hear that because I was thinking, who has an MD who works in the office every day, lives within community distance and doesn't come in every day, you're going to zoom with your boss from your couch. That doesn't seem like a great career move to me.

Sara Walsh (00:30:01):

Right.

(00:30:01):

And our team is hybrid as well right now, and we do have people that don't have an office to go into that we have hired throughout the United States, throughout Europe. So we have a combination and we make it work. We really do. Like you said with Zoom, people are hustling. I never feel like the people who are at home are not pulling their weight. Never once ever have felt that. So we can make it work.

Chana Schoenberger (00:30:27):

What is the best way to manage careers for people who are hybrid or fully remote? I am sure you do as well, but I have a number of people who are based pretty far away, nowhere near an office, and I want to make sure that they have the opportunities to get to know other people in the company. But it's very hard to make that happen.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:30:47):

We've done where we bring them in, we'll say like, Hey, come to the corporate office, spend a week there, meet different people. So we try to do that, especially when we get new hires. We want to, if we're not flying out to go spend a day with them just to talk through things and about the organization and give them the landscape, then we'll try to bring them to corporate. It just depends on the time. But I do worry about that, and I always say that. I'm like, I feel terrible because you're your own island. So if you ever get to a point where you feel like you're in your own island, you have to let us know because we're going to bring you to then the hub so that you could spend time with people, and then you get to meet people and you get to learn new things. So I think the importance of having those key conversations to let people know how you're feeling, that's how we're going to be able to make adjustments. And it depends on the size of your team. I have 19 people that report to me, so I can't always be on the phone with every single one, every single day. And I always repeat myself, I can't read your mind. You have to tell me how you're feeling, how I can help you.

Chana Schoenberger (00:31:49):

I had a boss who used to say, I can't do everything all at once. I'm not an octopus. That's cute. I think she learned that from a preschool teacher. Yeah,

Sara Walsh (00:32:00):

No, definitely. Yeah, you got to make the most of it. Again, the email communication that we rely on is too much. It just is, at least at our company. I don't know about everywhere else, but it's too much. So if you are remote, take the time to pick up the phone, talk to someone, schedule time with people, do zoom. Zoom is a wonderful tool, honestly. I mean, you can see people's faces, you can make eye contact with them. It's wonderful. So you might have to work a little bit harder to make sure that you're making those connections and building relationships, but it can be done.

Chana Schoenberger (00:32:30):

Yeah. What I try to do is, so we have a daily news editors meeting every day so that we can figure out what news we're going to put in our publication every day. And we usually start with five minutes of banter, which is just absolutely social. Tell me about the t-shirt you're wearing. How's your dog? And turn the camera on the dog. And that sort of serves to remind everybody that we're all people talk about your family, talk about where you went for dinner last night, your hobbies. Because for the folks that are fully remote, they don't otherwise get to do this with us. No one's going to schedule a zoom just to talk about your dog.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:33:10):

I love that idea.

Sara Walsh (00:33:11):

That's cute.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:33:11):

And I'm going to add five minutes to my meetings with my team now, because I started a weekly meeting with a team and I said to myself like, man, they're going to hate me. They're going to think I'm micromanaging. But it's really, it's a forced time that we actually spend together, but I didn't add that human aspect to it. And I think we need to add that because that is important all over the place.

Chana Schoenberger (00:33:30):

Yeah. Are you guys are nationwide people?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:33:33):

We are. Yeah. We've got people nationally. So, yeah, I like that.

Chana Schoenberger (00:33:37):

The funny thing also is that in an office you do have to dress a certain way, but at home you don't. And so you really get a window into people's personal lives. And then there's, I'm sure everyone has this, people's kids will wander in, you get to know them, you say hi to them.

Sara Walsh (00:33:53):

Those are my favorite memes on Instagram, like the reels of the kids walking in. Funny.

Chana Schoenberger (00:33:59):

Yeah, definitely. But it's nice though. Okay. We talked about advice a bit. What's some not so good advice that you've received about your career? And then what is better advice that you would give people now?

Sara Walsh (00:34:18):

I had a manager who would communicate to me that the way that I communicate was not assertive enough, was not aggressive enough. I think actually it was the term that was used.

Chana Schoenberger (00:34:30):

That's not gendered at all.

Sara Walsh (00:34:32):

No, not gendered at all. And I remember going into business reviews with this person and just being so nervous because nothing was good enough. It was always like, pick, pick, pick. And that did not help my confidence level as I was communicating either. And that's just not naturally how I talk. I'm very collaborative in nature. I say things like maybe off the top of my head, I'm not particularly prescriptive, but guess what? That has worked. And if you think about really when I kind of looked at his career and his followship, it was very limited. So I knew that that was not going to be advice that was going to work for me. And fast forward 10 years, what's the communication style that's in fashion now? People who listen to learn versus listening to respond, people who are collaborative, people who allow pauses in the conversation. So I'm so happy that I did not change because you don't need to be aggressive and super assertive to get results done. You can still be kind and displaying all these good characteristics and make it work.

Chana Schoenberger (00:35:39):

And it's all in the data, right? You either succeed or you don't.

Sara Walsh (00:35:42):

Yes, exactly. Are you hitting your goals? Then a variety of communication styles will get you there.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:35:50):

I am a firm believer of being your authentic self. And I've had mentors in the past or individuals that I reported into try to get me to change and change in the way of how I communicate, change in the way how I do things. And it didn't go well for me because I didn't grow up that way. I grew up in a way where it's like there was a constant fight and battle to get to what you want when you want it, and you had to work hard for it. And I couldn't be the quiet person that sat back and allowed others to walk over me, and it didn't work because eventually I ended up exploding. So then when you exp explode, it's not a good look for yourself. But I continue to be a firm believer, and I've staged to my authentic self where I express the reality of how I feel and how we work and how to build people and work as a tribe.

(00:36:45):

I do also though, recognize that I have a strong tone, and I always remind everybody that I grew up in a household with a Middle Eastern father and a Hispanic mother, and I was the youngest, and we are naturally loud people. So when you want to hear your voice heard, you have to just speak a little bit louder. I'm not mad, I'm not angry. That is just how I speak. So right now, it's really, really hard for me not to speak in my normal tone because I don't want you guys to go to deaf. I've got this mic on.

Chana Schoenberger (00:37:17):

They can turn the on,

Yaminah Sattarian (00:37:17):

But I'm naturally loud and it is insane. If we're after this, we're out there networking. I would not be shocked if you guys could hear me from the hallway if you were standing here, because that is who I am.

Chana Schoenberger (00:37:30):

But you're not yelling at

Yaminah Sattarian (00:37:32):

No, no, no. I'm just naturally loud. But in time.

Chana Schoenberger (00:37:38):

Yeah, definitely. This will bring your authentic self to work. I feel like sometimes in the workplace you see people who have misinterpreted that. What are some ways that you should not bring your authentic self to work?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:37:52):

Okay. Dress for your audience. And I think that one's an important one. When I say being your authentic self in a way is just for your audience. And I think that again, with the change of work from home and things like that, sometimes people forget about your appearance. That's important. I'd rather you not turn your camera on if you're not ready for the audience that we're in front of. I'm fine with the camera off, but to me that's important because the audience that you're in front of, they're looking to you to be similar to them in that perspective. Personality wise, be yourself. Yes. You know what I mean? Maintain who you are, but there are certain situations that you have to make sure that your surroundings and you meet those surroundings.

Sara Walsh (00:38:40):

I love the dress one. It's so true. So true. It always surprises me, oh, good morning. You look nice today.

Chana Schoenberger (00:38:47):

It's not what we're wearing to work today. Okay.

Sara Walsh (00:38:50):

Look, we have a very strong philosophy with my team and my leaders on the team that we do want people to bring their whole selves to work in that if you're talking about the weekend, if you're talking about your children, whatever you're talking about and socializing with, I mean, we all work so hard. You're going to build relationships with people that you work with,

Chana Schoenberger (00:39:10):

Ideally.

Sara Walsh (00:39:11):

Ideally, that's the goal. But I'm always concerned, no matter what kind of family situation you have, no matter where you're from, no matter your economic background, I want people to be able to participate in that banter, that kind of conversation that happens. So that has been our goal in our team. And we started something with our town halls that we have where we bring in people to talk about different backgrounds. We had someone who talked about going from the military to working at Bank of America and what that kind of a transition was like. We've had people who are out at work coming in and talking about how that transition was. So that has really helped, and people have given us the best feedback about those sessions, hearing from their peers when we're talking about it.

(00:40:03):

And it's been a little bit of a journey for me, I have to say. So I'll just share another story. I had someone, we were having dinner after a work event, and we were all talking and the person mentioned that she had an eating disorder in her previous years. She had an eating disorder. And at first I was like, oh God, I really wish she hadn't said that. That was kind of my first reaction, frankly. And then I was relaying the story to my 18-year-old daughter who is much more confident and mature than I ever was at 40, let alone at 18. But she was like, mom, that's what people talk about now. Why would you feel like that was going over the top, that she shouldn't have said that? That's great, and you should consider it a compliment that she was feeling comfortable enough in a work setting to actually mention that. So I'm learning it's not perfect, but definitely learning about some of those boundaries and where they are. But we do. We want people to bring their whole selves to work.

Chana Schoenberger (00:41:03):

There definitely is a generational difference in stigma. I guess that it does seem that younger people in the workplace are completely comfortable talking about struggles they've been through personally in a way that people our age would've felt that it was stigmatizing to do so. And they want to talk about it, they want to discuss it, they want everyone to know about it. They're not embarrassed. And that's a real difference.

(00:41:31):

And sometimes you can see those generational fissures in how the older person will respond.

Sara Walsh (00:41:37):

Yeah, it is a real difference. And always, of course, you want to be professional. There are certain topics obviously, that you just would never bring up and that are crossing the line.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:41:47):

You mean politics and religion? Oh my God, I get so stressed when someone starts getting into that with you. I'm like, yeah, way after work.

Sara Walsh (00:41:57):

Especially right now.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:41:59):

Yes.

(00:42:00):

Who are you telling? I am Palestinian and I'm like, I have to go the other way. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, again, it goes back to it's like there's certain things that you talk about, but I will say I do respect when people do tell me what they're experiencing at home and their families and stuff, because it brings that human aspect. And then it helps me nurture and understand what's going on, why certain thing's not working certain way or why something's lagging and okay, let's try to adjust it or do you need more help? Let me help you help yourself in situations. So it does help when they are open. But at the same time, I always tell people like, you don't have to tell me, but if you choose to tell me, I'm not repeating it. And believe me, I've had some situations where I've had someone legitimately have a panic attack on an airplane while we were traveling on business.

(00:42:46):

And it was a horrendous experience because they wanted to pull her off the plane. And I'm like, oh God, no. And I'm like, I got this. Let me deal with her. And I got her calmed down. We figured it out the next day. I'm like, I will never tell anybody this story. No one's ever going to know about it. The next day I walk into work and everyone's like, oh my God, I heard what happened. And I'm like, oh my God. I didn't tell anybody. How would they know? The employee came in to let me know, and they were like, Hey, I let everybody know. I just wanted you to know. I'm like, oh, thank God. I'm like, I didn't want anybody to think that I leaked it. I would never right. For me, if something's told to me and they entrust in you, it's like it stays where it's there. And if you choose to tell others, great. Even if someone comes up to me and says, Hey, I heard this story, I'm going to just sit there with a blank look like, yeah, whatever. And act like I don't know, because it's not for me to say

Chana Schoenberger (00:43:36):

No, absolutely.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:43:37):

But I do like the openness though. It's good to feel like people trust you.

Chana Schoenberger (00:43:41):

That's also another thing that comes up with hybrid work is that when you're in people's homes, at least you've got a camera into people's homes. You do learn a lot about, and it sort of normalizes this. We all take care of someone, right? Yeah. You've got your kids, you've got your parents, you have your pets, whatever else is going on in your life. And this is something we all have in common that in the past, people would not necessarily have talked about at work. I feel like there was some talking about children, but all the other things that are going on really didn't come into play. And in the last few years, it's just become a totally normal. We had a valued coworker who was dealing with an elderly parent, and we all went through that with him, and it was great. It was very edifying. And I think it's particularly good for younger folks to see this is during a career, you're going to live your entire life during your career. It's the whole middle 80% of your life. And so your colleagues will go through all of this with you. I it's tough. And this is kind of a softball question, and then we're going to ask the audience if they have any questions for you. Why is this a good time for payments and especially for women in payments?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:45:01):

You started clapping, you can go, I'm pitching this. I'll go right after.

Sara Walsh (00:45:05):

It is an awesome time to be in payments. I mean, talk about change and exciting things that are happening. And it's all driven from consumers. If you think about it, consumers want their payments faster. They want it different ways. They don't just want to use a card. They want to be able to use their phones to pay. There's so much that's driving right now and all things that really require collaboration across the industry, between Ki Bay, between Bank of America, between JP Morgan's here, whoever else is here. We can all really work together to advance some of this technology and satisfy our consumers and who is better at collaborating than women? We're good. We're smart. We're smart. We're good collaborators. So it's a perfect place to be. I am so excited about the future payments and just pulling up CNN or whatever news that you go to,

Chana Schoenberger (00:45:53):

American Banker,

Sara Walsh (00:45:54):

American Banker, I'm so sorry. American Banker. That's where you get all your payments. My first feed, my first feed is always American Banker.

Chana Schoenberger (00:46:01):

We have a great app.

Sara Walsh (00:46:01):

Then you can read something every day that's changing. So absolutely, just a great place to be right now.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:46:09):

100% agree. I wouldn't change it at all. I think for men, women, a whole diverse scope. The reality is the technology's constantly changing. We're seeing the enhancements. I think we're a little behind from the B2B technology perspective of making payments and moving faster. But we're getting there. And I think that becomes very exciting. We're in a different spectrum. I think from my perspective, I think where I feel comfortable and I'm benefit from the payment spectrum is I have a whole scope of industries that I work with and verticals where different sectors report into me. So I get to go see the facets of how it impacts different industries. So I have a healthcare and insurance industry, which they have a whole different subset of technology and movement of payments in comparison to diversified portfolios that I have, which are kind of the large corporates, and then also the gaming industry and the technology that's in gaming.

(00:47:02):

So seeing that spectrum, seeing that growth, seeing the women that are empowering each other, which I think that is also very, very important. Like, ladies, let's stand strong together. And men, thank you for supporting ladies in your teams. I think it's important that we stand behind each other. I think it's important that you're there to elevate your teams because the technology and payment's growing, and this is a huge sector to really stand strong in. And I think bringing in more women into the payment sector is really going to show our strength, our growth and collaboration.

Sara Walsh (00:47:36):

And not that I'm competitive, but I'm stupidly competitive. We are so far behind other countries when it comes to payments. You talked about B2B. It's a perfect example. We have a lot of catching up to do. So let's go us. Let's go. We can catch up.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:47:51):

Get rid checks. Get rid of checks. Get rid of checks. If Europe can do it, we can too.

Sara Walsh (00:47:56):

Canada can do it. Canada can do it. We can do it too, right?

Chana Schoenberger (00:47:59):

I always think it's funny. So I lived and worked in Japan 15 years ago, and of course, like everyone else there, when I took the train, I would pay for the train by just taking my phone and putting it on the chart style and walking through no big deal.

Sara Walsh (00:48:11):

years ago,

Chana Schoenberger (00:48:12):

15 years ago.

Sara Walsh (00:48:12):

15 years ago.

Chana Schoenberger (00:48:13):

So it was Docomo, right? And four years ago or so, New York finally got Omni, which is the same technology's,

Sara Walsh (00:48:21):

Amazing.

Chana Schoenberger (00:48:22):

And they're so proud of it, right? It's like I can pay with, I just double tipped my watch, put my watch down, and still to this day, I walk into places and I try to pay with Apple Pay for watch and the clerk probably once a week a clerk is like, wow, how do you do that? So yeah, the US has a long way to go.

Sara Walsh (00:48:42):

We do.

Chana Schoenberger (00:48:42):

Should just be more like HR.

Sara Walsh (00:48:44):

The transit is a great example though of where we have made strides.

(00:48:48):

Instead of touching those grimy terminals, you're just boop, go along

Chana Schoenberger (00:48:53):

And the technology existed and we just don't use it. Right? But we do now. Okay. We're going to take some questions and I think we have a microphone ready? Yes. Ready to walk around. So raise your hand. Megan will come over to you and you can talk into the microphone. This is your chance to interrogate our most influential women in payments honorees. I definitely don't want to miss this chance. Okay.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:49:24):

You'll have to answer. She works with me.

Sara Walsh (00:49:26):

Okay.

Audience Member 1 (00:49:28):

Thank you so much for the panel. It was wonderful. So my question is a bit provocative and it's around mentorship, and what advice can you give to the audience when you identify that a mentor is no longer serving you? So maybe there was a certain point in your career where that mentor made sense, they were adding a ton of value, helping you to unlock some potential, remove some barriers, and then maybe they're not moving along in their career, maybe they're not seeing the growth and the success that you are. And while you're very grateful for the mentorship, you know that you've got to move on. So what advice do you have for folks that maybe want to break up with a mentor?

Sara Walsh (00:50:12):

Break up with your mentor? Wow,

Chana Schoenberger (00:50:14):

not you. It's me.

Sara Walsh (00:50:19):

I think that I don't know if I would necessarily break up with them. I think I would maintain that relationship, but also seek out the assistance of perhaps somebody else that is more along your speed. I think that you can always continue to have relationships and conversations with people and maintain that Maybe you casually spread out the time that you get together with them from two weeks to a month, maybe then two months, maybe then a quarter. You can kind of do it gradually. But I don't know if I would personally, I would break up with them. I would try to keep the relationship moving, but certainly look to somebody else to help you as well. And you can tell the person that say, Hey, I also have been working with some of the things that she's been helping me with or he's been helping me with.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:51:08):

You can also have the conversation and put it in a lightweight, if you really truly are looking for separation is like, you know what? I appreciated all the years of mentorship, but I feel I've graduated now and I'm ready to move on. Put it in the terms of graduation. That's nice. You've stepped it up, it's time to go.

Chana Schoenberger (00:51:26):

You can also just decrease the frequency, decrease the cadence of your meetings with this person. You probably want to keep seeing them once every six months, once every year, because you never know whether that relationship will be useful later or in the sense of it's a two-way street, whether you'll be useful to them later, which for all the help that they've given, you also want to be able to help them. But that's a great question. Who's next? Yes,

Audience Member 2 (00:52:03):

I am just curious. As you were talking about reducing the amount of time, it seems like you both have great careers and you're probably quite busy in your day throughout work and family, et cetera. How much time are you consciously spending on mentor conversations, mentee conversations, sponsor conversations? Can you give a breakdown of that on how you focus on that?

Sara Walsh (00:52:29):

Yeah,

Yaminah Sattarian (00:52:30):

I would have to say that I'm probably terrible at managing that time because I will drop something to help someone that's in need. So I've taken calls in the evening, but at the end of the day, I make sure that I balance it out with the availability from that perspective. But I try not to push people off. Now what I have done where in situations where it's like, okay, I already know that I've got five people indirectly that I'm helping with. When the six comes over, I'll say, listen, from my perspective, I'll be able to give you once a quarter time, but I know someone else that fits the dynamic that is perfect for you that I'm going to introduce you to, that they can be a stronger mentor for you. So I don't necessarily not work with them at all, but I try to get another person that I know that can give them the more dedicated time that they need.

Sara Walsh (00:53:21):

Bank of America started this wonderful program last year, which was pod mentoring. So there's six of us and a leader in, and we meet once a month or whatever it is. There's an agenda for topics that we come up with as a group, and that has been a huge time saver. And frankly, it takes a lot of the pressure off me as a mentor too, because everyone's helping each other and learning from each other. It's been a huge home run. So that's something that I would say is great. And the people love hearing from their peers. They get a lot out of those conversations. It's a very talks in the mentor pod, stays in the mentor pod, and it's been a really big home run.

Chana Schoenberger (00:54:05):

So it's like an advising group in high school?

Sara Walsh (00:54:06):

Yeah, exactly. With a leader. And then the second thing that I would say that is helpful too is I do a lot of real time mentoring, whether they have asked for it or not sometimes, but if we're in a meeting and maybe someone didn't quite hit it quite right, then I have no problem picking up the phone and saying, Hey, this happened today and I just want to talk to you about it. Or vice versa. We had a situation where one of the leaders on a call was being a little bit of a bully, so I called the person after and said, look, that was not personal to you. Understand that maybe they've got such going on too. So a lot of real time feedback helps too and connects you with a lot more people too. Maybe you only have one conversation a year, but at least you're giving them something in a little bit over your time and they love it. They love to have those conversations and I think they love it.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:55:03):

I love it.

Sara Walsh (00:55:04):

They love it.

Yaminah Sattarian (00:55:04):

Love. I love it. Please call me out.

Sara Walsh (00:55:06):

Please. Please, yeah, when something is happening. So I think a lot of that real time mentorship is very valuable too.

Chana Schoenberger (00:55:15):

Anyone else? Yes,

Audience Member 3 (00:55:25):

Thanks for all your time here around the middle of the presentation. Within about a minute, you covered both extremes of challenges that women face, especially trying to grow into leadership. Where Sara, you said that you were being coached to be more assertive, and then 10 seconds later, Amina said you were being coached to be less loud, less assertive. How do you reconcile that and how can we as men help you and how valuable would that be?

Chana Schoenberger (00:55:50):

I was just going to say, as a journalist, so we profile powerful executives all the time, and that dynamic is very, very, it could really only be explained by whatever the woman is doing. It's not quite right. So if you have a woman who comes in and her personal style is she tells everybody what to do. People say she's bossy, and if she doesn't tell everybody what to do, she should really speak up more. And the way that you get around that is by not caring, continuing to deliver the results. And that's how you become a most influential woman in payments honoree, basically. But in terms of what men can do, I think that men and women can do the same thing there, which is just work with the person on the business without focusing so much on what the style is. It's like what results are we trying to achieve as a group? Is this person achieving them? If not, what would help her achieve them?

Yaminah Sattarian (00:56:56):

I also think that when men are around the water cooler and you just got out of a meeting with a group of women and someone says that she was aggressive and loud, but yet it's the same, they directed the same way that if a man did it and it wouldn't be treated that way, reflect on that and stand up for the women that are around you and ensure that everybody knows that it is no different than if John, Mike, Rob, or whatever said it, but you are taking it in a different context because it came out of a woman.

Sara Walsh (00:57:26):

And it's not the loudest voice in the room that always has the best ideas. So you can proactively ask if someone's being quiet, maybe they're a little intimidated. Ask that person's opinion. Try to bring them out, allow some pauses in the conversation. Don't jump in and over assert at all times. Just be courteous, really in the communication.

Chana Schoenberger (00:57:52):

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Sara Walsh (00:57:56):

Thank you for asking.

Chana Schoenberger (00:57:57):

Yeah, it's a good question.

Sara Walsh (00:57:58):

What a great question!

Chana Schoenberger (00:58:01):

And also it sort of goes without saying that you can't recognize powerful women in an industry without being aware that the majority of the people in the industry are men. And so every time a woman gets ahead, just like when a band gets ahead, there are a million people who helped her get there. And many of those people are men. Yes.

Audience Member 4 (00:58:36):

Which is how fast you embrace new technology or not, of course, if you do have all the systems and it's difficult to adapt rather than starting from scratch. So what is your perspective? Is it a good thing to adapt everything fast or it's not? How do you see the payments evolution happening here in the us?

Sara Walsh (00:59:10):

I would say if I was mentoring you and you asked me that question, I would definitely encourage you to use the functionality yourself that's out there. If you haven't been to Whole Foods, make a payment with your palm, for example. It's very cool. It's easy to set up if your AI is, of course, everyone talks about AI right now. There's a thousand ways that you can use AI yourself to kind of help you and give you a little bit of that edge as well. You can use ChatGPT for different things. We're using it at work and testing all the time. Bring pilots forward that you can do. Maybe you're not a hundred percent ready to go into new technology, but pilot it, try it. Those are really, I'd love to see that when people do that. And it can be intimidating. I agree. And sometimes, like you said, you don't have the perfect technology to advance some of these functions, but you can certainly look and how to figure out how in your personal life, how to incorporate some of them as well. Be curious.

Yaminah Sattarian (01:00:10):

Yeah, I'd have to agree. The curiosity piece of things is wonderful. And I would say it was not until last October, someone sat down with me and they were telling me about how much they use ChatGPT. I'm like, you do? At that point, I had never used it. And I'm like, you know what? I'm like, I'm going to try this. And I do a lot of nonprofit work instead on top of my day job, a lot of nonprofit work because all the time that I have, and I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, I can tell ChatGPT while I'm driving the car on the way home, what I need to write to help me write these letters that I have to do for the nonprofit stuff that I'm doing to the hospital systems. And that's what I do. I am driving and I'm telling ChatGPT, I'm like, I need this, I need that. I mean, of course I adjust it, but it's like it's such a time saver that I didn't know. And then the other thing is eBooks. I've never done the eBooks, and I was always like the paper book now. Well now I'm listening to books when I'm driving or I'm taking walks or my son's in Taekwondo and I don't necessarily need, can have the headphones on while I'm watching him and he's enjoying things, but I'm also enjoying a book. So,

Chana Schoenberger (01:01:15):

Hi sweetie.

Yaminah Sattarian (01:01:16):

Doing great. Embrace the technology. You're doing wonderful. I can see you while I'm listening to your book. No, and then the payment side of thing. Of course. I mean, I love that. I mean, to be able to go shopping and knowing that, oh God, I forgot my wallet or my purse at home, and I'm like, it doesn't matter. I've got my phone. So embrace it, use it all.

Chana Schoenberger (01:01:35):

Great. Great. Okay, last question. So a lot of the things that we talked about, pod mentoring, sponsorship, a lot of these relate to working in a big company. What do you do if you are trying to develop your career in a small company when there just aren't as many choices of leaders who could be a mentor for you?

Yaminah Sattarian (01:02:00):

I am a firm advocate of what I call having diverse mentors where it's not just within your organization. You find mentors throughout. And not everybody uses LinkedIn, but I am a fan of LinkedIn because you can meet so many people from a spectrum of different careers and organizations that you can meet with. And even if it's just a cup of coffee or just virtually, but not just within your org, you definitely should look outside too.

Chana Schoenberger (01:02:27):

Great, wonderful.

Sara Walsh (01:02:28):

And not even up. Remember when we were talking about some of look down in the like, who do you admire that has really good skills in one area that maybe you don't want to have those same skills? And it doesn't always have to be up. It can be across, it can be down. And I agree with the industry approach too. There are very few times when someone reaches out to me on LinkedIn and says, Hey, can I have a few minutes of your time that I won't give them 15 minutes? It's easy. You'll be surprised at how responsive people are in the industry.

Chana Schoenberger (01:02:59):

Great. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. This has been a really great panel and I appreciate.