Successfully Implementing Innovation and Navigating Large, Matrixed Organizations

This session features:
Miriam Cross, Tech Reporter at American Banker (Moderator)

Bridgit Chayt, Executive Vice President, Head of Commercial Payments and Treasury Management at Fifth Third Bank

Diane (Di) Morais, President, Consumer and Commercial Banking at Ally

Transcription:

Miriam Cross (00:06):

Hi, my name is Miriam Cross and I'm a Technology Reporter at American Banker. This panel is about how to implement innovation and navigate large organizations. You'll be hearing from Bridgit Chayt from Fifth Third and Diane Morais from Ally, both large organizations, but I'm sure their advice will be relevant to companies of all sizes. Thank you both for being here.

Diane Morais (00:26):

Great to be here.

Bridgit Chayt (00:27):

Thank you.

Miriam Cross (00:27):

I'll start by asking each of you to sum up what your role is and how it fits into the larger structure of your bank, Diane I'll start with you.

Diane Morais (00:35):

So I have the fortune to serve as the president of Allies, consumer and commercial banking division. So at Ally, we're a hundred plus year old company. The a hundred plus year old part of the company is our auto finance business that was formerly part of General Motors, and we've navigated through that. I run everything else from a business perspective, so sometimes it's like, oh, Ally isn't that auto finance company, and it's also our digital first bank, home loans, credit cards, investing in wealth management, corporate finance, and a few other cats and dogs. So it's fun and exciting.

Bridgit Chayt (01:17):

I get up every morning and I get to lead Fifth Third's treasury management and commercial payments business, which when you work for a bank that's over 160 years old, that is really trying to be 160 years young. It's a lot of fun and that's how we fit into that organization is in taking it into what the next 15,000 years of banking will be.

Miriam Cross (01:42):

And how does the topic of this panel resonate for you? Diane when we were talking in preparation for this call, you said it feels like life every day.

Diane Morais (01:52):

We were giggling on the way and just said, it's like our job description. So everything that we do I think is navigating. I want to find the company or the job in the globe that doesn't require a lot across collaboration and integration and navigation, but it's how we've learned to work. All the functions and all the partners matter. They need to be at the table. And as we think about going from idea all the way to delivering whatever that vision was into the hands of customers, the way to get that done is really critical in terms of successful outcomes or less so.

Miriam Cross (02:34):

Yeah. Bridgit, what do you think?

Bridgit Chayt (02:36):

No, I agree, Diane. There are so many benefits to being part of a larger organization in terms of a real brain trust that is there. The reality though is that in commercial payments, most of the time we're competing with non-banks. We're competing with mono lines that don't carry that type of infrastructure with them. And so you learn right away that you need to take an approach that will make that larger organization actually work alongside you, make you stronger from that as opposed to it being a disadvantage to not be a monologue.

Miriam Cross (03:11):

I'm curious, have both of you spent most of your careers at larger organizations or has it been a mix?

Diane Morais (03:16):

I've only worked for three companies over a long career and two very large banks. Citibank, Bank of America, Ally, comparatively is smaller, but still big.

Bridgit Chayt (03:31):

I've run the gambit in my twenties when I was two young to know any better, I started a bank with four other individuals. It was not large. We could make decisions in the hallway. We grew it over time to now being with Fifth Third.

Miriam Cross (03:44):

So aside from that, all big companies. Yes. What are the biggest challenges you've encountered, whether it's inside the bank or outside the bank when it comes to implementing innovation? Like Bridgit, you talked before about the impact of economic conditions and how even for one initiative a USPS decision had you changed course.

Bridgit Chayt (04:07):

I think as you're trying to navigate the organization, and you have back to the comment that was made earlier about having the p and l, you have impact on everything you do to the broader balance sheet for the organization. Getting them on board for things that you might want to do that are outside the traditional banker's box is critical. So building those relations throughout and then with growing dependence on FinTech partnerships or others outside the bank to deliver it can create vulnerability overnight. I was telling you about how the United States Post Office decided that they were going to change the way that they were supporting one of our pieces of business, and you quickly have to be able to pivot. You have to get everyone in the organization to realize that it is a priority and that it wasn't lack of planning that created the emergency that you need them now to show up to handle. And so those relationships are critical.

Miriam Cross (05:09):

How did you fix that issue?

Bridgit Chayt (05:12):

Actually, we brought the right cross-functional people together early on. We laid out what the problem was and helped them see what their relevance was to the actual issue, how part of the success was dependent upon them, and we were able to bring a brand new product to market to replace the one in 60 days. And that was going through every hoop A bank puts you through before you bring a product to market.

Miriam Cross (05:39):

And Diane, what are the biggest challenges that come up for you?

Diane Morais (05:42):

I think it starts with potential misalignment and we always, I'm sure we all, we have our roadmaps, we have our plans, we know what we want to do and then things happen. Life happens. And that requires pivoting, potentially reallocating resources if we're not bringing everybody back around the table. What has changed? Why is this important? We talk a lot about the why. I think context matters a lot for people. That is a great example. It was going to not work anymore. And sometimes it's an opportunity that we can be capturing and seizing and time matters or it might be something is changing and we have to change with it. And so creating that context framework for people and then ensuring that, again, we understand what trade-offs we might be making. Sometimes where it doesn't work is either we didn't communicate something or people have misaligned objectives. I think we spend a lot of time really striving to get that cohesive unity and collective view of what success looks like.

Miriam Cross (06:56):

I'd love a story that illustrates this. Do you have anything that happened recently where you had to bring different teams together?

Diane Morais (07:02):

Yes. Every day, every day day we have a story. I think a recent one was an opportunity where probably all of our companies, and I loved hearing Jenny just talking about all these new emerging opportunities. So gen AI, and we said we're going to try something as our initial use case in our contact customer care centers where, and it was brand new technology. And a lot of, I use the phrase, we have a lot of people putting their foot on the gas. We want to really explore and go fast. We have people putting their foot on the brake like, this is scary. Do we know what it's going to do? And a lot of concern. And so we use that as a lightning rod use case to say we can do things better for our customers, for our people. So basically what we did was create using gen AI, a summary of the call.

(08:02)

And again, for Ally, digitally only bank, our frontline people are the face of our brand. They cannot walk into a branch. And so taking some of that post-call work where they were typing the summary and trying to remember everything that they talked to the customer about, we were able to create summaries, customers or the associate could give it a thumbs up or thumbs down. And we learned and we said, we're going to do this quickly. And that was a great example of why did it matter? How were we going to manage through the process and what was the payoff on the other side? And it's been a great success. So that's our most recent, but I'm sure we all have, I mean it's life every day.

Miriam Cross (08:46):

And I remember I spoke with Satish about that and the whole gen AI project that came together very quickly. It did. Yeah, it did. Bridgit, how about you?

Bridgit Chayt (08:55):

I was just thinking about how there are oftentimes when in a large matrixed organization, there are areas of the organization that are looking at things across the whole bank and they'll potentially diagnose an area of opportunity within your own organization. And that at times creates a reverse situation where our teams are generally coming about with innovations. They can get a mindset about that, what's their space? And then having somebody knock on their door and say that they're there to make everything better for them can create some challenges along that line. And so what we've done there is try and then do co-ownership of what that opportunity is and come in and find out how we can go ahead and execute on something while still maintaining what we believe is the differentiator. Oftentimes when it comes through with process improvement, it's all about trying to make the complex simpler. And that's a wonderful opportunity to try and realize, but at the end of the day, what we do is complex and that's okay, right? As long as we use the matrixed organization to be able to help us execute on it, that for us in those examples is helping us improve the margin. It's helping us be able to continue to create value for our clients at a price point then that's mutually beneficial.

Miriam Cross (10:33):

And I'm curious, this makes me think, you were talking about how gen AI came together quickly and you're saying, but it's okay that things are complex, they take time. How important is speed to you? Speed and making decisions, speed and getting projects off the ground.

Bridgit Chayt (10:46):

The urgency is critical and it's becoming more so the pace of innovation, the pace of change within the industry has you not getting a chance to really relax too much after you rolled one thing out is the next thing has to be ready and teed up to go. That can be sometimes difficult in a large organization for them to understand. It's the parent that says, but I just gave you your allowance yesterday. What did you do with it? Because it's time to reinvest again and again.

Diane Morais (11:18):

Yeah, I think speed is crucial. I think we never feel like we're moving fast enough, but consumers are demanding it and we just keep looking at the way we do the work from idea to execution, how can we cut out fat? How can we make sure that the right people are in the right places so that we're clearing barriers? And again, the world is evolving so rapidly it cannot take 18 months or two years or fill in the blank number of months. I mean, one of my favorite phrases at work is you're looking at your calendar, I'm looking at my watch and we need to move fast.

Miriam Cross (11:56):

I would think there are also factions within the bank that are wary about moving fast. So how do you deal with, or how do you kind of work together with legal and compliance or other teams that are maybe encouraging caution.

Diane Morais (12:11):

And speed matters, but not stupid speed, right? Informed speed, measured speed. And the way we do it is we know who our teammates are and they are there from the beginning. And I think that's a recipe for success because the times that we've seen things maybe not go well or we get tripped up on the five yard line is somebody maybe didn't have that context from two months ago and is now asking all these questions and stamping on the break. So bringing them in, all of our partners early, airing it out, getting that alignment, being very clear on the why. And then we talked about this a little bit in the pre-call, also celebrating together and really making sure that all those people who were involved realized and see the same excitement of whatever that thing was. And I think that is an important cultural element that everybody's on the team.

Bridgit Chayt (13:16):

I think with speed, people are concerned about what they don't know what's ahead of us. And if we're going really fast, what happens if we encounter that bump? I tell my team all the time, you never get on a plane without knowing where the exits are. And when we go in and try and convince individuals throughout the organization of an opportunity for innovation at a speed, it's telling them how we'd exit as well. It's not what you go in wanting to do, but as long as you know where those exits are and what your exit strategy is along with your innovation strategy, I find that they can be much more comfortable with the speed. It's the fail fast, fail fully.

Miriam Cross (13:58):

And Bridgit I was talking about the importance of creating y for people. Is that something, is that a technique you use as well?

Bridgit Chayt (14:05):

Yes, absolutely.

Miriam Cross (14:07):

Then I know another thing both banks have in common is you've both acquired fintechs in recent years, especially fifth Third. I know some of them have been absorbed into the bank, some operate outside of it. So how does that complicate issues of navigating layers and making decisions?

Bridgit Chayt (14:24):

I think for banks that have made acquisitions in the FinTech space, it's very important to remember why you made that acquisition. They have something you don't, whether that was in mindset, the way they worked, whether it was the technology, but there was a formula there that worked that you weren't recreating within your own organization. So I watch at times when someone tries to act as though it's an acquisition and it's bank to bank apples to apples and we're going to put you all into the way that fifth third does it or whatever, fill in the bank name does it that the value seems to diminish pretty quickly as a result of that. So the two that we've done this year, one is in a non-traditional banking space in terms of its healthcare revenue cycle management company. And we've left that to run on its own but have used our folks to help distribute to sell, which they do well and advise with clients. The other was a piece of technology stack in a company called Rise Money, and that's been a fun we were talking about. That's been a fun integration because we've actually been working the culture side on our own fifth Third people as opposed to the individuals who came in with Rise trying to replicate more of that mindset within our own product teams in the treasury management space. And it was a bit of an epiphany when you say, well, wait a minute, I don't want them to be like us. I want us to be like them.

Miriam Cross (15:56):

What was it about the culture that appealed to you?

Bridgit Chayt (15:58):

One back to speed. The way that they approached and solved problems. And I think two back to that, monoline, they could run at a different velocity than we did because they weren't navigating the full organization. So we put those two things side by side and said, okay, how do we find that place in the middle and it's going well.

Miriam Cross (16:20):

Do you have a sense of how, I mean how it's affected them, how now they have a whole new organizational structure?

Bridgit Chayt (16:29):

It was the best of times, it was the worst, right? There are parts that they really enjoy. I think that they have had a pleasant realization that you don't just blend into the woodwork and a company that has 20,000 employees that there is a lot of recognition and interaction that happens on a personal level that's a plus. Things such as forms and approval processes and those things. I don't think you like them when you're in the WIC organization. So it's, those are the things that come up, just what's perceived bureaucracy.

Diane Morais (17:04):

For Ally. I'd say we've done three acquisitions dating back to 2016 and we've taken a philosophy, we have integrated these companies into our culture. We feel like it's our biggest strength as a company, the culture that we have. And so I've kind of described the three acquisitions of Goldilocks, like too hot, too cold, just straight. So the first one, we were very hot to try to integrate almost too quickly and we broke some stuff. And then second acquisition, we probably went a little too slow. And again, we all understand there is a backdrop of regulatory expectations that is different whether we like it or not, it is different as a bank than a FinTech. And so sort of bringing up the maturity, we probably went a little too slow and then we're like, oh, we're two years in and we still have a ton to do and we're doing it.

(18:07)

And our most recent acquisition, it was a credit card company, and so we're going to have our second year coming up in December of having that company under the Ally umbrella. And so far I think again, each one we learn things what not to do, learn and apply another one of my phrases. And so we've learned a lot and really tried to apply that. So I don't know that I could completely call it just right, but it's a lot better. And for us, I think the piece that you said Bridgit about, okay, bureaucracy, some of it is real, right? When you have 11,000 people versus 80 people, it's a different thing to manage. But we've tried to be really thoughtful about how we nest them in into the culture and then all of the other benefits that come along with that. And that's been a real plus. And I think for us, we've heard from some of our teammates is they know their company may not have survived what we all experienced back in the first quarter. And so I think that's also a very big factor that plays into it.

Miriam Cross (19:17):

Absolutely. Yeah. Has there ever been an aspect of their culture you've tried to borrow for Ally?

Diane Morais (19:24):

No. I think Bridgit's point about speed, the first one that we did was a company called Trade King, and it's a wealth management investing platform and they were fully agile and this was again back in 15 and 16 and Ally was getting there but slower than we probably needed to be moving. And that helped propel us and we've just continued to evolve from there. So that's probably one thing I'd say speed and the way of delivering the work, we adopted a lot of that.

Miriam Cross (20:00):

Okay. And then earlier Diane, you were talking about the importance of getting people excited and feeling ownership. Do you have any stories that illustrate how you've done that successfully?

Diane Morais (20:09):

With the acquisitions or just in general?

Miriam Cross (20:10):

In general? Yeah.

Diane Morais (20:12):

We really do. And I think it comes back to the, we are a very customer obsessed company and being able to paint that picture of we're doing this for customers because, and where did Kate go? Just making the world a better place. Wherever you are, Kate, you are, I think we're all trying to make the world a better place and creating that excitement of why are we doing something? What is it going to mean into the lives of our customers? And I think I shared with Miriam, we have spent a lot of time over the last five years grounding our company in human-centered design. What is the job to be done, the problem to be solved, whether it's expressed by consumers or not expressed. And instead of trying to put our, we have these ideas, so this is the way we're going to do it. We keep bringing it all the way back to let's use this process that works over and over and then creating that vision. And then when we see the feedback from consumers and sharing those stories about, Hey, how are we making a difference for one customer at a time that catches on like wildfire and then it just becomes fuel. People want to work on those things. They get excited, we celebrate the successes, and that creates a level of infectiousness that I think propels the next thing. And the thing after that,

Bridgit Chayt (21:47):

Those actual customer connections for people who are not normally customer facing are just huge on the celebration side. The letter that you get from a client because they were happy about something you were able to do, don't keep it to yourself, right? We take that and we share it throughout the organization. I had one individual who helped us land a pretty complex deal and not within my organization, but gave her the salesperson of the month award kind of thing. The idea that they're very much part of that success.

Miriam Cross (22:22):

Or do you have any stories that illustrate how you've gotten other teams on board and gotten excited and felt ownership.

Bridgit Chayt (22:28):

Back again to what Diane said around customer names and especially when there's a story behind the customer and you share that and we're in the business of trying to help our customers be more successful and when they can feel that contribution to it. Then we had one where we were doing it on the cash side with a very large travel center, and that team started to take selfies next to the gas pumps of this customer and send them all in. And then we ended up sharing it with the customer, but they had that level of energy engagement, excitement about it.

Miriam Cross (23:04):

So selfies are good from morale? Yes, they're, and Diane, when you talked about celebrating excellence, what did you mean by that? How do you spread the word around the bank?

Diane Morais (23:14):

We have a lot of venues where we're sharing what's happening in our businesses. And so I'd say at a very local level, part of what we try to do, whether it's in meetings, ongoing business reviews with our CEO or our board, bring enough of those factoids of this is what we've done. If we won an award for something great, but it's not about that. It's about making our people see that their work is valued. They can connect what they did to whatever that broader effort might have been. And you can't overdo it. You can't overdo it. And we really try to not just make it a one and done. We may have launched something two or three years ago. We're continuing to, I call it tinker with it, improve it. And so we don't want it to be just the new sexy thing, but even making something that we've been doing for a long time better taking friction out, filling in potholes, some new capability. And again, it's just back to that create the why, create the excitement of delivering it and then continuing to learn and grow from there.

Bridgit Chayt (24:28):

That was one of my great reminders during the pandemic as a leader, you were reaching out to individuals doing some social things virtually for groups. You were trying to create that team kind of feel. The thing that really landed was when you would call somebody and recognize the work that they were doing, and it was, Hey, I don't know whether you see me. I'm here at home now. Right? Do you know that I am actually working in some cases probably longer days than I did when I was in the office. And that in addition to saying, Hey, let's all get together and laugh and have the team energy was, Hey, you noticed what I was doing even though I wasn't there. And I think that really plays into the Matrix organization. So you knew I was behind the scenes and that I added to this, the relevance that's so critical.

Miriam Cross (25:22):

And I'm curious, when you're talking about recognition, do you find, is it just more than enough for people to be privately recognized or is there, does getting publicly recognized in the bank give it an extra boost?

Bridgit Chayt (25:34):

The latter.

Diane Morais (25:35):

I think both.

Miriam Cross (25:37):

Okay.

Diane Morais (25:39):

If I call Wendy and tell her she crushed a meeting or her team really represented something incredibly well, I know that she appreciates that, but the public part of that,

(25:52)

We have an all hands, we talk about why Wendy got recognized. We at Ally have an annual award that's for our top half a percent of people who crush it on what we call our leadership values. There's always great what that came along with it, but they have to be the poster children. They get a trip with the CEO and a number of the executives. So I think it's all those levels, right? The personal, I appreciate you. I saw how you handled that. You went over and above that matters. You cannot replace that. But I do think some element of standing people up as the poster children and then that's the model that everyone else sees. Like, aha, I'm going to be like Wendy today. That's how you build healthy culture.

Miriam Cross (26:44):

Have you found the same?

Bridgit Chayt (26:45):

Yeah, I mean it's the star you got to put on your refrigerator when you went home from school when you were recognized, right? That recognition in front of others is a story that goes home and helps engage family and the others who actually support what that individual does for us, it's critical.

Miriam Cross (27:04):

And as you're both talking, another question that's coming to my mind is how does navigating large organizations, how is that affected by geographic distances? I believe Ally, your operations are split between Charlotte and Detroit.

Diane Morais (27:18):

And a number of places.

Diane Morais (27:22):

I think we were doing it well pre Covid. I think we do it even better post Covid and Zoom obviously brings a more human connection to someone who might be on the other side of the country. But really finding those ways to, and some meetings I'm like, everybody put, I call it camera shaming. I'm like, get your cameras on. I want to see you and yeah, I'm right. I'm having a bad hair day. I might not want to put my camera on either if I'm remote, but that matters. And those things create connections. And oh, by the way, as leaders, I notice that stuff. I notice who has their camera on, I notice who's paying attention. And it's not that you always have to have it on, but people who are lurking and the last panel, well, how are people standing out? What are their opportunities to grow? Get tapped for something. If you're in the background hiding, those things are harder. And so we try to really where we can be together, important meetings. We try to come together, but we can't always have everyone in the same room. So how do we use technology to create those connections?

Bridgit Chayt (28:42):

Back in 2018, we started this program within our treasury management commercial payments group where it's called Knowledge Day. It is one day a quarter where we all come together on a variety of topics that are really just meant for personal and professional development. It's not a vendor who comes in and sells us something. It's not a training, it's just an agenda that is planned by three individuals that rotate, get a chance to work with each other. And that's virtually, that's across all of our footprint. And since we've started that we still end up, even though it's not mandatory with about 250 people who dial in and spend that day with us virtually. And so I think those types of things tell you that there's a need for it, and if you have the right content, you make it worth their while.

Miriam Cross (29:35):

And a question for both of you. Where do you see room for improvement at your banks?

Diane Morais (29:41):

We're perfect. Yeah,

Bridgit Chayt (29:42):

Kidding.

Diane Morais (29:43):

If you had to choose something.

Diane Morais (29:45):

I think for me it is about continuing. We've a number of the executive team read a book called Essentialism. Literally right before the pandemic, we had a leadership offsite and we had the speaker come and talk about it. And it's the discipline pursuit of less and how to say no to things that may not matter as much so that you can really put your time into things that matter the most and are going to be most impactful. And that was incredibly timely. We didn't know it, but two months later or a month and a half later, here comes covid. And that was the ultimate aligner of cancel all that stuff. We are navigating through the pandemic. And then when things started to get a little more normal, a little more stuff came back into the system and we keep talking about it. Do we have to have that meeting?

(30:38)

What is that report? Can it just be something that people read? And it is like this quest for essentialism. I think it's tough. And there are certain, I was talking to a teammate the other day and somebody said, making the how do you figure out how to continue to make the complex simple? That is a quest because if we are not careful, we just gum ourselves up. And then to the point about speed, it slows us down and we're not competitive. And so being able to really discern what is essential and what just needs to go, to me as a discipline, we've made a lot of headway. We still have more work to do.

Bridgit Chayt (31:25):

I think we've made an awful lot of headway and we take some chances that maybe some other organizations aren't as comfortable with. Back to failing fast. We know where our exits are and move that. I think the industry, the media unintentionally, the word innovation ends up becoming somewhat potentially divisive in the company because it's the cool kids versus the trains running on time or the things that aren't seen quite as sexy. And so one of the things I think that we can do better, and I work on quite a bit, is making sure that there doesn't appear to be that halo effect on something that's shiny and new and considered innovation compared to the contribution that everyone else in the organization is making. And that can be sometimes not something that anybody explicitly says. It's just what part of the information gets in front of the board. What part gets in front of earnings or the street or where do some of those public awards end up happening is generally on the new stuff. And we need it all. We need the today folks and the tomorrow folks together in order to deliver.

Miriam Cross (32:38):

And for both of you, over the course of your careers, how do you think, whether it's your personal ability or you think more of industry-wide, the efficiency at navigating large organizations, how has that evolved?

Diane Morais (32:51):

I think it's a skill. I think it is a skill that people need to understand what good looks like and what good doesn't look like. Because it makes me crazy when I hear like, well, somebody said we just have to do this because, so it's important to the CEO or Die said, and it's like, no, that's not the why. So that's not what good looks like. But how is it changed? I think it is a skill that can be learned and continue to be refined. And there is a level of collaboration influence. A lot of people, if they're in charge of an effort or a project they're not directly accountable for or those resources don't report to them. And you've got to get people to have your back and crawl through cut glass. And that, again, I think we talked a lot about, or maybe it was the last panel, the importance of relationships. If I just think Miriam is here to write my copy and I don't know, you don't feel valued, and then when something hits the fan and I really need you, you're not going to necessarily go the extra mile. And I think that's my point about it is a skill and organizations are getting more and more complex. And so I think we try to train our people, we try to model that behavior, but it is a skill that needs to continue to be refined now.

Bridgit Chayt (34:32):

It has to be intentional. It is not a situation where you can go, no news is good news. No news is just something that's simmering and it's back to relationship. It's phone calls every once in a while to heads of those areas to say, how are we doing? Right? It's the asking the question. It's making sure that it's part of the rhythms that you're doing, because I think the time you think you've got it nailed or you think it's in muscle memory is when it all turns around and you realize it's not. Or just like with our own customers, we are our most vulnerable when there is a change in contact. When the individual, at our commercial customers place, the treasurer changes the CFO changes, that's when somebody walks in with a new 90 day plan for what they want to achieve. So it's the same thing within the organization. When the contact changes, you need to go back in and understand what is part of their 90 day vision, right? How do you align to that?

Miriam Cross (35:39):

And if I heard you correctly at the beginning, you moved from a very small bank to fifth third. Was that a shock?

Bridgit Chayt (35:45):

Well, I had a stop at a larger bank in between. So you moved up. Actually, it was a pleasant situation back to the fact that you will build relationships. You don't end up just in the woodwork or one name on a big roster of names. I think that Fifth Third has definitely built a culture around that. And even in our downtown Cincinnati headquarters is more of a campus type of a feel to it that helps build those relationships.

Miriam Cross (36:16):

And I was it a shock going from mega banks to Ally?

Diane Morais (36:20):

When I first got there, it was in May of oh eight in the almost, oh, great time, almost peak. My dearly departed father used to say, I was running through the raindrops and I had been running the deposits business at Bank of America. So when I first got to Ally, I was like, where are the remaining zeros on the balance sheet? But what that has meant for me is size and scale matter, but it's not always about the zeros and the ability to make impact and do really interesting things is equal equally, if not more exciting.

Miriam Cross (36:59):

Well, thank you both very much.

(37:00)

Thank you.

Diane Morais (37:00):

Thank you. Thank you.